- Welcome to Food Allergy Support.
Posted by ajasfolks2
- November 19, 2012, 06:51:16 AMQuote from: twinturbo on November 14, 2012, 11:07:31 AM
The one question that keeps popping up in my mind is does this leave you holding the bag if something goes wrong in the school's opinion? And if all goes right will it enbolden the school to do more massive food whatever it is? No good deed going unpunished, etc.
I keep coming back to this . . .
Seems the school both wants the "food allergy" safety & "expertise" to be shifted to the LTFA parent(s) AND the liability if something (anything/anybody!) goes wrong.
It's a win-win for the school, isn't it?
(I've mentioned in similar discussions before: LARGE LIABILITY UMBRELLA POLICY suggested to protect family financially to some measure.)
Seriously, I also advocate signed permission slips for ALL to participate in the event -- with release of responsibility/liability for the LTFA family. (The FCPS field trip permission slips always gave me inspiration:
http://www.fcps.edu/it/forms/fs152.pdf )
This thread tracks back to many of of the same/similar underlying arguments against so-called "safe" snack lists.
Posted by becca
- November 18, 2012, 09:07:58 AMAjas, I was a strong advocate in our preschool, and well-received by the director there(despite food being very present in the curriculum). They went nut free when we entered and tried to make food safe. Anyway, I would frequently be approached as the"expert" on if a food was safe or a recipe was safe for "allergies." Well, I only dealt with our allergies, and only knew what worked for our child. we were more vigilant than most, so they trusted me to be overly safe, and felt secure in that. However, I was in no way going to take that on for another child.
Always said, "For us...but better ask that child's family."
Always said, "For us...but better ask that child's family."
Posted by ajasfolks2
- November 16, 2012, 07:31:57 AMRegarding the bigger issue of the health risk (and other) to all,
I've been in some districts/schools where they actually had large, well-paid staff and department:
"Risk Assessment"
Perhaps, once you've gotten past this event, you can address the risks with this "department" or staff?
~ ~ ~
Totally agree that you must work on individual accommodations for your child and that you must tread lightly and not speak for any others, regardless of their "diagnosis" or status.
When we were boxed into these sorts of situations (when kids were very young & at private school) we were religious about disclaimer that we were NOT an authority on any other child's LTFA needs and were NOT claiming "safety" of items for anybody other than our own child/children. However, it was really hard to get this through to staff as they often wanted to leap to sweeping conclusions as to "ALL" children with XYZ allergy or other condition.
~ ~ ~
I would H-A-T-E the food fests regardless of our LTFA status. Lots of reasons.
Just my editorial comment for the day: Oversimplify and lump kids together into categories and needs and, well,
we have "school" in general, now, don't we?
I've been in some districts/schools where they actually had large, well-paid staff and department:
"Risk Assessment"
Perhaps, once you've gotten past this event, you can address the risks with this "department" or staff?
~ ~ ~
Totally agree that you must work on individual accommodations for your child and that you must tread lightly and not speak for any others, regardless of their "diagnosis" or status.
When we were boxed into these sorts of situations (when kids were very young & at private school) we were religious about disclaimer that we were NOT an authority on any other child's LTFA needs and were NOT claiming "safety" of items for anybody other than our own child/children. However, it was really hard to get this through to staff as they often wanted to leap to sweeping conclusions as to "ALL" children with XYZ allergy or other condition.
~ ~ ~
I would H-A-T-E the food fests regardless of our LTFA status. Lots of reasons.
Just my editorial comment for the day: Oversimplify and lump kids together into categories and needs and, well,
we have "school" in general, now, don't we?
Posted by becca
- November 16, 2012, 06:38:28 AMYes, other families simply do it differently, and I learned to only advocate for my child, and as mcC said, make broader statements re: overall inclusion of others.
And, I personally believe what works for some families, even if it is more "lax" that what i do, well, works for *them.* I hate it when I am compared to them, however, and expected to loosen my comfort zone on foods due to that. This was a huge issue in the girls scout troop. well, K's mom lets her have that stuff. Blah, blah. Sigh...
So, I can imagine another family who is managing their allergies is also thinking that if we try to force changes they find unnecessary.
Personally, I hate the food fest things. My ds is not allergic, and it is his turn for the Pilgrim/Native American feast. However, they have changed it, from what I can tell. There are only very specific food items, and you have to sign up to do one, and have your name on it. I assume so they can ask you about it if need be. I am doing grapes. And I only saw cornbread and carrots, otherwise. That would have been all fine for dd back in the day(she would have had my cornbread). But it was a minefield.
And, I personally believe what works for some families, even if it is more "lax" that what i do, well, works for *them.* I hate it when I am compared to them, however, and expected to loosen my comfort zone on foods due to that. This was a huge issue in the girls scout troop. well, K's mom lets her have that stuff. Blah, blah. Sigh...
So, I can imagine another family who is managing their allergies is also thinking that if we try to force changes they find unnecessary.
Personally, I hate the food fest things. My ds is not allergic, and it is his turn for the Pilgrim/Native American feast. However, they have changed it, from what I can tell. There are only very specific food items, and you have to sign up to do one, and have your name on it. I assume so they can ask you about it if need be. I am doing grapes. And I only saw cornbread and carrots, otherwise. That would have been all fine for dd back in the day(she would have had my cornbread). But it was a minefield.
Posted by maeve
- November 15, 2012, 10:15:51 AMQuote from: CMdeux on November 14, 2012, 11:17:16 PM
... but the real question is... would it be wrong to be thinking that, ehhhh??I thought so.
Absolutely not.
I agree with McC that you should really only take on the safety of your child but I'd also say that you should really also only take on inclusion as it relates to your child. I tried to argue inclusion for other FA kids in my daughter's class (as well as safety) in regards to treats at holiday parties and got nowhere. In fact, I think I lost a lot of goodwill in arguing so ardently that year.
Posted by CMdeux
- November 14, 2012, 11:17:16 PM... but the real question is... would it be wrong to be thinking that, ehhhh?? I thought so.
I thought so.Posted by Macabre
- November 14, 2012, 11:00:50 PMI've been mulling this one over for a few days, and I think there are some good points here. I think the reason I've been mulling this over is because in your situation, I wouldn't do anything other than meet my child's needs.
Since I have been pushing for accommodations that are based on the individual needs of my child, I don't know how to translate that well into knowing what's best for other kids (even though of course I do, lol. Seriously--this food fest is NOT in the best interest of a lot of kids, but I don't want to be the authority on other allergies that I don't deal with. I mean, I've been in that place awkwardly. Been put there, I mean.
In middle school (which is SO much easier than elem and frankly better than high school--for us), our MS passed out peppermints during the math portion of the annual (I kid you not) SOL tests.*** Some study showed that sucking /on peppermints (or no doubt other candy) helped kids perform better on math tests. This was a surprise to us and was not in his 504. The VP called me frantically the day of. DH just happened to have some Bob's airy-puffy-type peppermints in his office and ran some down for DS. The next day, they bought a bag--wanting my recommendation for doing so. Because they had other kids with PA. But my son was the only one with a 504 for one, so I obviously must be an authoritative person on such matters. (see where I'm going?)
Well, our comfort level with Bob's is fine. One of the few things made in Mexico (this mint was) that we buy/trust. But would I say it was fine for all kids with PA? No way Jose!
I have found it best to speak for my child as far as safety and to make lovely broad sweeping statements about inclusion for other kids.
So in your case, I would just focus on my child. It sounds cold. I just don't think I should make decisions for other families.
***Silly--it stands for "Standards of Learning." I know what you were thinking, lol.
Since I have been pushing for accommodations that are based on the individual needs of my child, I don't know how to translate that well into knowing what's best for other kids (even though of course I do, lol. Seriously--this food fest is NOT in the best interest of a lot of kids, but I don't want to be the authority on other allergies that I don't deal with. I mean, I've been in that place awkwardly. Been put there, I mean.
In middle school (which is SO much easier than elem and frankly better than high school--for us), our MS passed out peppermints during the math portion of the annual (I kid you not) SOL tests.*** Some study showed that sucking /on peppermints (or no doubt other candy) helped kids perform better on math tests. This was a surprise to us and was not in his 504. The VP called me frantically the day of. DH just happened to have some Bob's airy-puffy-type peppermints in his office and ran some down for DS. The next day, they bought a bag--wanting my recommendation for doing so. Because they had other kids with PA. But my son was the only one with a 504 for one, so I obviously must be an authoritative person on such matters. (see where I'm going?)
Well, our comfort level with Bob's is fine. One of the few things made in Mexico (this mint was) that we buy/trust. But would I say it was fine for all kids with PA? No way Jose!
I have found it best to speak for my child as far as safety and to make lovely broad sweeping statements about inclusion for other kids.
So in your case, I would just focus on my child. It sounds cold. I just don't think I should make decisions for other families.
***Silly--it stands for "Standards of Learning." I know what you were thinking, lol.
Posted by hk
- November 14, 2012, 09:31:07 PMYou are both absolutely right. I can't fix this and we only have 2 1/2 years left at this school anyway. It's one of the better schools in terms of food allergies anyway. I'm still terrified that some poor kid is going to leave this heritage feast in the back of an ambulance,but it is not my responsibility. Thanks for your thoughtful replies.
Posted by CMdeux
- November 14, 2012, 01:01:21 PMYes, and that is probably the focus that my remarks would take-- that in NO WAY are you going to be taking on responsibility for ANY safety issuse engendered by this activity. No way, no how.
You're letting them know it is dangerous, and you're letting them know WHY/HOW. Beyond that, there is little that you can do. If other parents don't know/care enough to involve themselves or communicate with the school, that simply isn't something that you can fix.
Unfortunate, but true.
You're letting them know it is dangerous, and you're letting them know WHY/HOW. Beyond that, there is little that you can do. If other parents don't know/care enough to involve themselves or communicate with the school, that simply isn't something that you can fix.
Unfortunate, but true.
Posted by twinturbo
- November 14, 2012, 11:07:31 AMThe one question that keeps popping up in my mind is does this leave you holding the bag if something goes wrong in the school's opinion? And if all goes right will it enbolden the school to do more massive food whatever it is? No good deed going unpunished, etc.
Posted by CMdeux
- November 14, 2012, 09:55:03 AMHmmm. I haven't been ignoring this, I promise!!
I have just been thinking about it.
I honestly don't know. I've tried the "general allergy" tactic before, by the way-- and generally speaking, I've never had any success with it that translated into much beyond lip service.
Plus it burns capital in these relationships with administration, which is okay if EVERYTHING else goes well, since you don't wind up needing it later, KWIM?
The only change that I've ever been successful in making system wide for students with LTFA is that the school now has a national policy (at least I've been told it's national) of offering evaluation under Section 504.
DD and I both have tried to put paid to certain activities which are-- as this is-- just a horrible, horrible idea and a total nightmare for someone else... since statistically, there IS almost certainly someone who is being placed at risk by them...
and we've always been ignored, quite honestly. If it's a risk which can be mitigated for YOUR child, then that's what they'll do. They (probably) aren't going to entertain "hypothetical" risk scenarios, even if you can show them why they SHOULD think about it.
It's very frustrating.
I have just been thinking about it.
I honestly don't know. I've tried the "general allergy" tactic before, by the way-- and generally speaking, I've never had any success with it that translated into much beyond lip service.
Plus it burns capital in these relationships with administration, which is okay if EVERYTHING else goes well, since you don't wind up needing it later, KWIM?
The only change that I've ever been successful in making system wide for students with LTFA is that the school now has a national policy (at least I've been told it's national) of offering evaluation under Section 504.
DD and I both have tried to put paid to certain activities which are-- as this is-- just a horrible, horrible idea and a total nightmare for someone else... since statistically, there IS almost certainly someone who is being placed at risk by them...
and we've always been ignored, quite honestly. If it's a risk which can be mitigated for YOUR child, then that's what they'll do. They (probably) aren't going to entertain "hypothetical" risk scenarios, even if you can show them why they SHOULD think about it.
It's very frustrating.
Posted by twinturbo
- November 10, 2012, 07:33:26 AMWhere I would start: Is there a 504 in place that would be violated by this event?
If not in violation next question would be: How many children anaphylaxing is the school staff completely ready to handle? Two? Three? At one time?
Once a realistic emergency management for multiple instances, simultaneous or sequential, is hammered out and approved of as a risk then move forward with intense planning, delegate responsibility naming names accountable for specific students and food. Run all with military precision. This is all assuming the school has designated tiers of responsible adults for epinephrine administration, ambulance riding, etc.
I know this doesn't address what the school is truly askin of you, which is leveraging an "allergy parent" to take responsibility of an anaphylaxis nightmare waiting to happen so they can have plausible deniability. And I do realize the alternative that if not an informed, intelligent and responsible adult like you in charge of this then they will appoint another "allergy parent" who will half-butt it enabling the school who may squeak by on sheer luck that only one or two kids will have supposedly minor reactions that most likely will be undertreated self-resolving episodes of anaphylaxis.
So yes, my unhelpful preach to the choir stuff you already know answer is disguised passive civil disobediance to challenge the whole affair. Been there done that, they actually listened and made some positive changes.
The softer approach here is to pantomime their request by assigning responsibilities back to staff to make it so glaringly bureaucratic and paper-trailed they start getting nervous to be named. And honestly I do think spreadsheeting out the wazoo assigning responsibility for kids, foods and reaction/anaphylaxis/celiac/diabetic management is in the kids best interest if they will not be swayed otherwise if for no other reason than you are not to know of private health info.
How do you want to handle it? That will get you more answers of use to you specifically than how we would handle it. Ultimately that's the deciding factor.
If not in violation next question would be: How many children anaphylaxing is the school staff completely ready to handle? Two? Three? At one time?
Once a realistic emergency management for multiple instances, simultaneous or sequential, is hammered out and approved of as a risk then move forward with intense planning, delegate responsibility naming names accountable for specific students and food. Run all with military precision. This is all assuming the school has designated tiers of responsible adults for epinephrine administration, ambulance riding, etc.
I know this doesn't address what the school is truly askin of you, which is leveraging an "allergy parent" to take responsibility of an anaphylaxis nightmare waiting to happen so they can have plausible deniability. And I do realize the alternative that if not an informed, intelligent and responsible adult like you in charge of this then they will appoint another "allergy parent" who will half-butt it enabling the school who may squeak by on sheer luck that only one or two kids will have supposedly minor reactions that most likely will be undertreated self-resolving episodes of anaphylaxis.
So yes, my unhelpful preach to the choir stuff you already know answer is disguised passive civil disobediance to challenge the whole affair. Been there done that, they actually listened and made some positive changes.
The softer approach here is to pantomime their request by assigning responsibilities back to staff to make it so glaringly bureaucratic and paper-trailed they start getting nervous to be named. And honestly I do think spreadsheeting out the wazoo assigning responsibility for kids, foods and reaction/anaphylaxis/celiac/diabetic management is in the kids best interest if they will not be swayed otherwise if for no other reason than you are not to know of private health info.
How do you want to handle it? That will get you more answers of use to you specifically than how we would handle it. Ultimately that's the deciding factor.
Posted by hk
- November 09, 2012, 04:15:27 PMI am going to meet with our two principals next week about the annual Feast of Death (I mean Heritage Feast) and about how to improve our school's food allergy plan in general.
The Heritage Feast is just plain scary. Parents rampantly ignore the no nuts rule. Chinese food from restaurants is abundant. Last year I looked up only to see a boy I knew had nut allergies loading a piece of mortadella with pistachios onto his plate. DD will be fine because I am there and I bring her her own plate of safe food. However, 5% of the kids in our school have an EpiPen. These kids are allergic to everything from mushrooms to aged cheese to nuts to eggs..... I guess shutting the entire thing down is my main goal, but it is probably unrealistic. If that is not an option, what is my best strategy to protect these kids (many of whom have parents who either don't understand the seriousness of their child's allergies or just can't be bothered to attend this event)?
Second, I am going to try to improve the food allergy policy. On a positive note, they don't allow birthday treats (since a boy almost died from eating one about 5 years ago). It's not a horrible school in terms of FA, but there is a lot of room for improvement. We have a lot of FA bullying (at least DD has experienced that). If there is anything you would request, I would love to know what it is.
Thank you so much!
The Heritage Feast is just plain scary. Parents rampantly ignore the no nuts rule. Chinese food from restaurants is abundant. Last year I looked up only to see a boy I knew had nut allergies loading a piece of mortadella with pistachios onto his plate. DD will be fine because I am there and I bring her her own plate of safe food. However, 5% of the kids in our school have an EpiPen. These kids are allergic to everything from mushrooms to aged cheese to nuts to eggs..... I guess shutting the entire thing down is my main goal, but it is probably unrealistic. If that is not an option, what is my best strategy to protect these kids (many of whom have parents who either don't understand the seriousness of their child's allergies or just can't be bothered to attend this event)?
Second, I am going to try to improve the food allergy policy. On a positive note, they don't allow birthday treats (since a boy almost died from eating one about 5 years ago). It's not a horrible school in terms of FA, but there is a lot of room for improvement. We have a lot of FA bullying (at least DD has experienced that). If there is anything you would request, I would love to know what it is.
Thank you so much!