This is fantastic. 

Quote from: eggallergymom on October 24, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Ah yes, subversive is good! And while the PTO may have won the battle, they aren't going to win the war. The 504 team has indicated they will make next year's event food-free. Doesn't help my kid this year, but we're blazing the trail, I suppose. 

Great news!

Ah yes, subversive is good! And while the PTO may have won the battle, they aren't going to win the war. The 504 team has indicated they will make next year's event food-free. Doesn't help my kid this year, but we're blazing the trail, I suppose.   

Quote from: CMdeux on October 18, 2013, 01:50:37 PM
ITA about PTO.  PTO should not be setting curriculum.  You should not have to negotiate safety with other parents. 

AMEN.

ITA, too. 

I tended toward the subversive with this kind of thing when DD was younger-- so we would do something that would NEVER be covered in school because it would be too controversial, expensive, difficult, etc.  USUALLY with a pointed social justice twist thrown in for good measure.

Then my DD would get to talk about that instead of whatever lame-o thing that the CQ's had dreamed up.   HA.

yes!

^What she said. Win-win.

ITA about PTO.  PTO should not be setting curriculum.  You should not have to negotiate safety with other parents. 

AMEN.

ITA, too. 

I tended toward the subversive with this kind of thing when DD was younger-- so we would do something that would NEVER be covered in school because it would be too controversial, expensive, difficult, etc.  USUALLY with a pointed social justice twist thrown in for good measure.

Then my DD would get to talk about that instead of whatever lame-o thing that the CQ's had dreamed up.   HA.

We have an event coming up this year that they have 'always had'.  DS doesn't care.  I kind of do.  I kind of want to ask them how they are going to include DS.  They can't if they do it they way they always have.  And the person in charge is a POFAK who has a very lose comfort zone (one I think is not safe and that most/all here would also think is not safe.)  But thankfully that is the only even this year.  The older DS gets thankfully the less he cares.  I also discovered trump foods that I can give him and he could care less what he isn't getting when he has them. 

Still, it would be nice if people would fully include students who can be fully included. 

ITA about PTO.  PTO should not be setting curriculum.  You should not have to negotiate safety with other parents. 

Thanks, lakeswimr. I am going to keep talking to them about the wisdom of having the PTO involved in the curriculum like this, and in the difficulty created by having these cooking activities on field trips.  There really is no reason they need to do this, they just "always have".

I think you are very smart to skip this. I have tried cooking in a kitchen situation like that and it was so very stressful and not so safe in my opinion.  I once kept Ds home from an unsafe field trip and we just had a fun mom/son day.  I hope you can, too.  I'm sorry that you are in this position. I would talk to the principal about how this is not fair to your child and ask about upcoming future field trips. I would try to get him to change/nix any that would be unsafe in this way because if a field trip is important for educational reasons, it is also important for your child for educational reasons as well and they should try to think of other ways to meet those educational goals. 

I passed through Sleepy Eye to get to Mankato (real places sooooooo cool) for a performance of Legally Blonde: The Musical. Pa and Mr. Edwards were nowhere in sight! Maybe they were frightened away by Elle Woods ....

Quote from: Macabre on October 15, 2013, 10:52:05 AM
If I were in your situation, given where I live now, I would make a Laura Ingalls Wilder pilgrimage to learn about that pioneer. (Ha--got both pilgrim and pioneer in there.)

Growing up in Texas, I didn't hear either term applied to anything local.  We did talk about the frontier and exploration.

My daughter loves the Laura Ingalls Wilder books. My Mom is from Minnesota so I've been to Minneapolis several times, but I've never done a trip to Walnut Grove. That would be fun.

Thanks for the 504/PTO material, TT. That is very good to know, as I'm sure this will come up again.
And unfortunately, no, we don't live near that museum. It looks fantastic. But we do have good museums here, and an amazing one an hour and a half away. We may go up there, since we'll have the whole day.

PTO/504 regulations in case you need it down the road.
[spoiler]Here's one OCR investigation and ruling (Letter of Findings) regarding PTA sponsored events.

Irvine Unified School District, 19 IDELR 883 (OCR 1993) "Sigificant Assistance" would be our friend here.

QuoteInasmuch as the Club is not a program of the District, but is operated by a private organization, the PTA, the District does not have a direct obligation to provide the service itself under Section 504 or Title II. The program operator, the PTA of Orange County, therefore is not a recipient of Federal financial assistance and is not a public entity. OCR has no jurisdiction over the PTA. However, the regulations implementing Section 504 and Title II prohibit the District from providing significant assistance to any agency, organization or person that discriminates on the basis of disability. OCR therefore explored whether the District was providing significant assistance to the PTA and if so, whether the failure of the Club to provide the services discriminated against A.

Significant Assistance

Departmental interpretations of 34 C.F.R. ? 104.4(b)(1)(v) indicate that the following considerations should be examined to determine whether a recipient is providing "significant assistance" to a private group: (1) direct financial support; (2) indirect financial support; (3) provision of tangible resources such as staff and materials; (4) intangible benefits such as the lending of recognition and approval; (5) the selectivity of the recipient's provision of privileges and resources; and (6) whether the relationship is occasional and temporary or permanent and long-term. OCR examined to what extent these factors were present in the relationship between the District and the PTA Club program.

The District does not fund or subsidize any of the program's staff, and District staff do not appear to play a formal role in the operation of the program. The teachers involved are not paid for their participation in the Club by the District but rather by the organization. OCR found no direct provision of financial or staffing resources.

However, OCR did find evidence of significant indirect assistance. Based on a review of District documents and interviews with PTA and District personnel, OCR found that the Club program is located in permanent school buildings. It is not disputed that the program is housed on a District site on a permanent and long-term basis. A copy of the "Application and Permit for Use of School Facilities" shows that the provider uses "playing fields and classrooms" at the College Park Elementary School site.

The facilities-use form shows that the District has not charged the PTA a fee for the use of the facilities at the School. The PTA acknowledges that it does not pay a facilities-use fee to the District. In addition the District pays the utility and maintenance costs.

Additionally, the PTA advertises its program to parents by furnishing leaflets to students at the school site; the students then distribute them to parents. The College Park Press, a school newsletter advertises the Sunshine Club program. While the District does not operate the Club program, the Club program is closely identified with the District and benefits from that identification.

OCR finds that the District provides significant assistance to the PTA Sunshine Club program at the College Park Elementary School. The District has a substantial relationship with the program. While the District does not provide direct financial support or staff, it provides indirect financial support as well as assistance to the programs in a number of other ways. The facts meet the standards for finding significant assistance.

A refresher on the definitions of recipient and Federal financial assistance.

Quote(f) Recipient means any state or its political subdivision, any instrumentality of a state or its political subdivision, any public or private agency, institution, organization, or other entity, or any person to which Federal financial assistance is extended directly or through another recipient, including any successor, assignee, or transferee of a recipient, but excluding the ultimate beneficiary of the assistance.

(g) Applicant for assistance means one who submits an application, request, or plan required to be approved by a Department official or by a recipient as a condition to becoming a recipient.

(h) Federal financial assistance means any grant, loan, contract (other than a procurement contract or a contract of insurance or guaranty), or any other arrangement by which the Department provides or otherwise makes available assistance in the form of:

(1) Funds;

(2) Services of Federal personnel; or

(3) Real and personal property or any interest in or use of such property, including:

(i) Transfers or leases of such property for less than fair market value or for reduced consideration; and

(ii) Proceeds from a subsequent transfer or lease of such property if the Federal share of its fair market value is not returned to the Federal Government.

(i) Facility means all or any portion of buildings, structures, equipment, roads, walks, parking lots, or other real or personal property or interest in such property.

Here we go. 34 C.F.R. Part 104.4(b)(1)(v) that the case refers to, in bold.

Quote104.4 Discrimination prohibited.

(a) General. No qualified handicapped person shall, on the basis of handicap, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or otherwise be subjected to discrimination under any program or activitiy which receives Federal financial assistance.

(b) Discriminatory actions prohibited. (1) A recipient, in providing any aid, benefit, or service, may not, directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, on the basis of handicap:

(i) Deny a qualified handicapped person the opportunity to participate in or benefit from the aid, benefit, or service;

(ii) Afford a qualified handicapped person an opportunity to participate in or benefit from the aid, benefit, or service that is not equal to that afforded others;

(iii) Provide a qualified handicapped person with an aid, benefit, or service that is not as effective as that provided to others;

(iv) Provide different or separate aid, benefits, or services to handicapped persons or to any class of handicapped persons unless such action is necessary to provide qualified handicapped persons with aid, benefits, or services that are as effective as those provided to others;

(v) Aid or perpetuate discrimination against a qualified handicapped person by providing significant assistance to an agency, organization, or person that discriminates on the basis of handicap in providing any aid, benefit, or service to beneficiaries of the recipients program or activity;

[/spoiler]

I doubt we're in the same state (and feel free to not disclose) but sometimes college campuses offer great resources for kids. I take mine here.

Quote from: twinturbo on October 15, 2013, 10:34:44 AM
Meaning principal is scared of PTO which gives not a fig about cultural or medical issues.

Maybe the others are interested in dedicating that day to learning about first peoples both then and now.

Yes, I think that's a good read on the situation. That's a good idea to try to organize an alternative field trip. There are plenty of options around here.

If I were in your situation, given where I live now, I would make a Laura Ingalls Wilder pilgrimage to learn about that pioneer. (Ha--got both pilgrim and pioneer in there.)

Growing up in Texas, I didn't hear either term applied to anything local.  We did talk about the frontier and exploration.