Well, to provide an update seeing how this was bumped, I called her out on all her secret eatings of foods that she's allergic to. Long story short we are now separated. Much deeper issues exist with her but I can certainly say she was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and manipulating me and causing myself and others undue grief. I can't say for certain if these allergies exist at a certain level; she didn't explain and I didn't care. But she had no explanation for any of it which is a sign of a guilty person.

Anyway, life is much better now.   

Opps, I realize I'm accidentally bumping up an old thread.  Sorry!  I thought Hurra had come back to question his wife's allergy again.

And one last thing.  I believe Twix used to be peanut safe and then started putting a warning on the label.  Some people sometimes ignore warning labels in such situations.  I don't think they should ignore them but it is understandable that some feel that since they have eaten the food fine for years they can continue to do so.

Quote from: Hurra on December 04, 2014, 01:20:30 PM
Peanuts were not being hidden. We planned to visit family who kept peanuts in a drawer and removed them days in advance of us being there given her allergy. But apparently leftover peanut protein in the air of the drawer affected my wife days later. That just seems highly unlikely to me especially that she secretly eats chocolate bars that may contain peanuts.

An airborne reaction to that type of peanut is very unlikely.  A contact ingestion reaction is a lot more likely.  So what?  Did she have wheezing and difficulty breathing?  What did you do to help her or what did she do to help herself? 

Quote from: Hurra on December 04, 2014, 12:25:57 PM
I'm not going to test theories that could ultimately threaten her life. I am just trying to get more information and learn about how this allergy can actually affect those who have it before confronting her again.

I do think she is allergic to peanuts,  she would not have been given epipens if she didn't. But the severity is what I am questioning,  and what reactions are possible or not likely.

There is no way to know the severity!  Reactions can change from one exposure to the next.  They are largely dose dependent so if a person ingests a greater amount they should have a stronger reaction than to a smaller amount.  However, with time, as a person avoids an allergen, the allergy often becomes much stronger and a person can react to far smaller amounts.  I would not mess around with a peanut allergy.  You need to be her protector.  She will get enough other people doubting her.  You will have to stand up to those people for her. 

When people eat peanuts they usually touch all sorts of things with hands that have peanut protein on them.  If someone who is allergic to peanuts goes into that house and touches some of those same things like faucet handles, light switches, door knobs, the backs of chairs, table tops, etc and then touches their eyes, nose, or mouth, they can ingest enough protein to cause a reaction, and in some people, even anaphylaxis. 

You say the peanuts were in a bag in a draw and then moved to the garage.  Was the whole house scrubbed down?  Probably not.  If people in that house usually eat peanuts and if they don't wash their hands immediately afterward, then they are almost certainly getting peanut protein around the house.  Some peanut allergic people will react in that type of situation.  My child has had multiple reactions including very serious ones from that type of exposure. 

I remember your earlier post and I remember the discussion about chocolate.  The chocolate could be a few things.  It could be she is eating an allergy-friendly brand.  It could be she is just missing chocolate and taking a huge risk to eat it.  It could be she has a higher threshold and can eat foods like chocolate that have some xcontam.  It could she got very lucky and didn't get enough xcontam to react.  It could be the chocolate she got is actually OK for her (Hershey's for example is not a risk for peanut allergy, I believe.  Don't go by me but I think that's right.)

What type of chocolate did she eat? 

What treatment did she get for the breathing trouble?

To offer the other side of the coin, in closing, has your mother considered giving the birds sunflower seeds?  I'm just saying I don't think the birds care therefore the human family member could concentrate on self-management if the peanuts were substituted all around as a good will gesture to regain trust, AND provide a control to measure in a less arbitrary manner.  You wouldn't have to dumpster dive for wrappers. Of course you would want to discuss creating a comfort zone together then see if you can't move forward.

That is a rough spot to be in.  I'll let someone else field the dishwasher question although I'll hint it's not WYSIWYG as it appears.

How did you (together) handle life with allergies for the first ten years you were married and prior dating?  There must have been some point where the communication flowed differently.

I appreciate everyone's comments. I will not be testing theories by planting peanuts around the house etc.

Just to clarify the facts. My mother had stored peanuts in the dishwasher to feed the birds through a window. My mother is old school and washes dishes by hand. So 2 weeks prior our visit, she moved the peanuts to an attached garage. Finally when we visit, during the visit for some reason my mother opened the dishwasher and my wife had an apparent reaction. I'm pretty sure my wife knew there had been peanuts stored in there as my mother would have mentioned it. My mother felt really bad and my wife made sure my mother felt bad. How could my mother have predicted that??

I am not questioning if she has an allergy or not. Obviously, her doctor must think she does to have given her an Rx for Epipens. However, to claim she had an allergic reaction when that dishwasher door was opened where peanuts were stored up to 2 weeks prior, but secretly be eating a Twix bar that states "May contain peanuts" seems like a contradiction to me.

This is an issue for me because my wife has some major issues with pretty much all my family and friends and I can't figure out what any of them have done to offend her. Yea they are not perfect, but they don't deserve the animosity she has for them. I don't want to get into this here, as that is a thread for another forum.

I'm posting a link here. Hurra please read. It's just heartbreaking. He didn't knowingly ingest. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/11/28/college-student-dies-after-severe-allergic-reaction-to-peanut-butter/

I will add that things also change over time. With shellfish, I had horrible airborne reactions--at work when someone nuked shrimp for lunch or whike eating out. One time airborne shrimp exposure resulted in A GI reaction, but most of the time it resulted in spaciness/lightheadedness. This was 2095-2012ish.

I don't have the same problem with airborne shellfish now. Or at least haven't for a couple of years.

At one point airborne exposure to sesame was not a problem at all, but now it is. I've had several airborne reactions. One was in Panera going through the line (I hadn't touched anything). Their allergy practices were fine for my meal (soup). And they even put new gloves on before grabbing my utensils. But being near the bread with sesame was enough to do it to me. I had to leave.

So thresholds can change over time.

I am so sorry to hear about your reaction.

I can echo most of what was said above, and add that I had an almost EpiPen reaction last night to the walnut oil in the paints my husband was using in the next room.  The proteins from the oil (however minute), were being stirred up in the air, which I breathed in and caused symptoms: itchy/puffy eyes, headache, stomach ache, and other seasonal-type, allergy symptoms.  (I wasn't aware that he was painting at that time.)

Yeah, yeah, multi-symptoms reactions = Epi, and I really should have used it, looking back, despite symptoms being mild overall.    Husband is now re-homing all his paints and art supplies that contain walnut oil.  (He previously only used them when I wasn't home, until yesterday.)

So there's proof enough that incredibly minuscule proteins can be stirred up into the air and cause reactions.  The art studio room has now been quarantined and I'm not allowed in until my husband can scrub everything clean, because traces are now everywhere.

So, yes, the situation you described could be extremely dangerous to a persons with low threshold peanut allergies.  Even with peanuts in their shells, peanut residue is everywhere, and anything in that drawer, around that drawer, or possibly in that room could now be contaminated.  It's not worth the risk.  However, with someone with a much higher threshold, that may not be a problem at all.  Always be conservative; assume the lowest threshold possible when creating a safe environment for someone with allergies.

Hurra I'm glad you are here asking these questions. As you have no doubt gathered, threshold levels are highly individual.

My son has had an anaphylactic reaction from being around a highly concentrated PB cookie. It's not the smell but the protein. It could have been anxiety but he was in close proximity and his throat tightened  before he knew there was a PB cookie nearby. His doctor says it's by ingestion only but I've seen too many reactions that weren't.

The same doctor (one of the FA gurus) also affirmed that a different anaphylactic reaction happened accidentally. DS picked up peanut protein on the door (cafeteria or bathroom--after he went to the bathroom during lunch at school) and then accidentally ingested it. He head to have an Epi and leave school in an ambulance.

That was the second time a reaction like this happened. The first was at a different school where he picked up peanut protein from sports equipment during PE and didn't wash his hands before having a snack. He had  asthma (that woukdn't respond to his inhaler) and spaciness. Epi and hospital for him--and then he had a biphasic reaction 8 hours later that required an Epi and ambulance ride to the hospital.

He doesn't eat at houses that use peanuts--or at least doesn't eat any food that he can serve himself that hasn't been contaminated. So--individual bags of chips fine but not a big communal bag.

In any case, we also avoid family homes that use our allergens.

After visiting a house with a dog (hardwood floors and I don't sit down, and shower after coming home and wipe down the leather car seats, etc) I am coughing up mucous and having worse asthma symptoms for days. Heck--I can do that for a few hours after. My husband returns from a house with cats and washes clothes immediately and showers.

Peanut protein, as guess said, oeanut protein is not easily cleaned. Clorox wipes aRe effective.  There was a study almost two years ago that showed it doesn't break down on its own--went for at least for 100 days with no significant degradation. It has to be properly cleaned off. A sponge and water won't do the trick.

As we said before, some may contains don't contain but many do and you just don't know. She could be getting lucky. That said, there are foods I am comfortable with for my son or me that work for us. I can't explain why I am comfortable with them. But other brands I have no trust for.

Every single person here goes through a different anxiety journey. And it goes in cycles. It's normal for a person with food allergies to experience this ebbs and flows in anxiety.

However, I would try to stop using the word lying. There may be words for her behaviors, which baffle you. But I would try to stay clear of the L-word. 

And the act of OPENING that drawer is very definitely a mechanical means of disturbance-- of the drawer, the air IN the drawer, any dust on the glides/runners holding it in place, etc. 

If peanuts have been consumed regularly over a period of years, and stored in that single location (meaning that occasional spills have likely occurred), then yes-- I believe it in someone with a low threshold dose for peanut. 

I also believe that it is nearly impossible to make a peanut-consuming household TRULY safe for a short visit by someone with this kind of sensitivity.  My mother and her spouse tried a few times, but honestly?  It was terribly hard to control my daughter's asthma every time we visited, and I had to spend the first day we were there DECONTAMINATING the kitchen sufficiently that I could use our own utensils and pan to make my DD her own (safe, brought from home) food.

The carpeting and upholstered furnishings were heavily contaminated in my mom's home.  DD suffered terribly while in the house-- and improved when we went somewhere outside of it, often within a few minutes.  Given that this was evident when she was as young as 2 or 3 years old, I'm really thinking that this was not about my daughter's need to control others or misrepresent anything to anyone.  Given that it was STILL a problem when she was 9 and fully aware of what she was touching and was a veritable FREAK about handwashing, going so far as to sit on towels, etc. and not touch non-washable porous surfaces, etc-- I also think that there is only so much that attempts at mitigation can accomplish.

The real question is only whether or not a person with a peanut allergy is among the ultra-sensitive group that my daughter belongs to.   Candy bar wrappers in the trash-- unless the individual has CONFIRMED that s/he is consuming those items-- are not proof that the individual is not that sensitive.  Possible that they belonged to a friend who ate them in the car or something, yes?

This isn't a conversation to be having without involving the allergic individual. 

Quote from: Hurra on December 04, 2014, 09:50:04 AM

Anyway, I had questions on peanut allergies. I read that the smell of peanuts does not cause a reaction; maybe only a mental reaction of fear. One has to intake the protein through their mouth, nose or eyes. So would a bag of peanuts in the same room be a risk? Peanuts that are still in their pods? I can understand and see if the peanuts were broken open, baked,  etc releasing proteins in the air but I'm asking about peanuts in unbroken pods.

I breath through my mouth and nose. Does your wife breath a different way?