Quote from: Arkadia on February 17, 2012, 07:58:18 AM
I posted elsewhere how the party turned out (pretty uneventful), and will try to find the post and transcribe it here. I will say I noted moms reading labels to determine if the Hershey Syrup was okay for a milk allergy. Not sure if that was okay with his parents, no one told me one way or another. Anyways....before I knew it they were squirting Hershey Syrup in his bowl for him to dip his lemon bar in. (He apparently asked for it). The moms started making some comments, faces, and before you knew it the kids at his table (not my daughter) were taunting him with things like "ewwwwwwwwwwww, that's gross", that trickled over to other tables.  I put on my stern face and told them NOT it's never nice to make fun of ANYTHING about another student.  I got some "oh, were not making fun" and I told them "oh, you are". I told them then, it wasn't being a Bucket Filler. It wasn't "Kind", or "Responsible", or "Respectful". That put an instant stop to it. But really, if it weren't for comments of adults, I don't think it would have started.

Parents pretty much run these room parties, and there is a need to know as far as personal information or plans are.....but if there weren't parties, there wouldn't be a need...

As a parent of a milk allergic child, Hershey`s syrup would probably be okay, but it would have to be a fresh bottle.  I doubt the moms thought of that.  If the Hershey`s syrup has been used to squirt into ice cream and the bottle touched the ice cream, then there can be small amounts of ice cream in the syrup that was squirted into the bowl of the milk allergic kid.  For some milk allergic kids, that would be epi and ER.  How can the school not see that they are creating a liability situation by letting moms decide what is safe for a milk allergic child who is not their child?  People are so food obsessed that they are unable to think rationally.  They don`t want the liability of having a non medical person using an epipen, but they don`t mind having parties where food is served that allergic kids are eating without having the mom of the allergic child okaying it.  That is just stupid.

Quote from: lakeswimr on February 17, 2012, 08:22:10 AM

Does that other parent realize that room mothers determined whether or not a food was safe for her child?  I'd tell her so at least she knows this is happening.

no idea how to contact her.
at a birthday party i met saw the pa mom.  close quarters, she was dropping off a substitute cupcake, and I introduced myself as another mother of someone with a peanut allergy. ie:  "oh, my son has a peanut allergy, I'm staying, let me know....blah blah blah..." and I got the cold shoulder. Ice freezing cold. Most pa, parents, in my experience, want to fit in. They don't want to be "THAT mom.". That's the feeling I got, and if a parent's wishes aren't point blank communicated in a classroom, that's the way I interpret it:  "Don't bug me, I want my child and I to "fit" in."

They don't want to talk to us, period. We are the minority.

suevv -- 

The adverse impact can be staggering for some (maybe most) kids -- and often not detected as early as you seem to have grasped.

Wish I had scribbled down a quote I heard on brand new MSNBC show (Melissa Harris-Perry) this morning.  Going to try to find it -- she was speaking as to rights for a different population (not the disabled) but her words were such that I wanted to have them for our LTFA kids -- had to do with right to inclusion in the community and with privileges and emotional aspect.

I'll try hard to find & get them here.

CMDeux said, among other things, she wanted her child not to be:

c) terrified for his/her life while his/her peers and trusted authority figure(s) laugh and have fun by isolating him/her
d) made the butt of jokes or insensitive commentary by everyone in his/her surroundings

Even setting aside the immediate health risks of food allergies - which for some unfathomable reason aren't enough to stop school-food problems - we only recently realized how profoundly and horribly these two factors were impacting our 4 year old in his preschool.  Having removed him from the school, I now realize his development had been on "pause" for the last three months he was there.  He was spending the entire day in defense mode - and that was carrying over to home.  The poor little guy was exhausted and demoralized to a degree I failed to see until he recovered over the Christmas break.  I do wish there could be some real science done on the adverse impact from school-food problems on our FA kids.  Maybe that could somehow tip the scales.  I don't know.  It's just all so frustrating.

 

Quote from: lakeswimr on February 10, 2012, 12:03:24 PM
I agree Youknowhow, and wish someone would write all that into an article that would be able to help convince others see it this way, too.  I also do not get why it is seen as OK to leave FA kids out by people I know would NEVER be OK with it if roles were reversed.  I don't understand the thought process.  I told someone I thought it was that they valued the food more than our children's lives and that person told me it isn't that--it is that they value their idea of what they want for their child over what I want for my child.  I don't know.

THIS!  It gets me so riled.  Like we want the food allergies to affect our children.  Just like they want cupcakes for theirs.  Do those sort of people really think this is about different wants? 

I had/well still have, a mom at our school like this.  I cramped her style when she would send an email out, "I will be making cupcakes for the GS meeting(she was assistant leader).  They will not be safe for the girls with food allergies."  WTF???  How can she not see how offensive that is, never mind exclusionary?  So, our big falling out began with my reply all:  "That sounds fun!  I will make safe cupcakes for the girls with allergies so they can also enjoy a cupcake with their friends."  I guess SHE was furious?  She had told a couple of mutual friends that the allergies were "just too much"  and "getting ot her."  Looking for sympathy.  Both moms she said this to have either a food allergic child or celiac in the family!  She "felt compromised" by the allergies.  WTF? 

I just cannot get over this attitude.

Good job stopping that, Ark.  I don't ever put up with that type of thing from kids, either.  Too many teachers don't step in and think kids should learn to deal with it.  But it isn't socially acceptable behavior and it is the adult's job to teach children that. 

Does that other parent realize that room mothers determined whether or not a food was safe for her child?  I'd tell her so at least she knows this is happening.  Sounds like a future accident waiting to happen.  Hopefully not, though!

CM--I agree.  Another person's *feelings* are not more important than a FA child's *life*.  The fact that the feelings are often put higher than safety and inclusion of the FA child is mind boggling.

Quote from: CMdeux on February 10, 2012, 04:06:48 PM

Quote from: lakeswimr on February 10, 2012, 12:03:24 PM
I agree Youknowhow, and wish someone would write all that into an article that would be able to help convince others see it this way, too.  I also do not get why it is seen as OK to leave FA kids out by people I know would NEVER be OK with it if roles were reversed.  I don't understand the thought process.  I told someone I thought it was that they valued the food more than our children's lives and that person told me it isn't that--it is that they value their idea of what they want for their child over what I want for my child.   I don't know.

Uhhh... okay, I understand that isn't an entirely "rational" statement intended to be picked apart logically...
(and I've heard similar things over the years, too, fwiw... so I suspet this is quite a common rationale)

BUT--

What THEY want for their child = FUN!  Birthday indulgence!  Feeling special-special-special in front of all his/her classmates... warm happy glow of... happiness, let's say (being generous, since I strongly suspect that in at least some cases, it might well be "smug" or "superior" instead, but how ugly is THAT?)


versus what FA moms want, which would be...

I "want" for my child = for my child to not be made:

a) dead,
b) permanently brain-damaged
c) terrified for his/her life while his/her peers and trusted authority figure(s) laugh and have fun by isolating him/her
d) made the butt of jokes or insensitive commentary by everyone in his/her surroundings


I mean, that is the comparison that we are talking about here.  It really is.   They simply don't even understand that a and b on my list are real, or that those might be "needs" rather than WANTS.

That's why I still view that statement as patently callous and selfish.  Sorry, but one person's desire to IMPROVE already good feelings/self-esteem at the price of another child's terror (or actual harm) = 'inhumane and more than a wee bit sociopathic.'

That is truly akin to the kind of thinking that serial killers use about their victims; a disengagement from them as "human" with the same fears, needs, and relevance as the killer's.  I think that other parents (cupcake queens, mind) DEHUMANIZE us and our children so that they don't have to feel guilty about what they choose to do anyway.

   

I posted elsewhere how the party turned out (pretty uneventful), and will try to find the post and transcribe it here. I will say I noted moms reading labels to determine if the Hershey Syrup was okay for a milk allergy. Not sure if that was okay with his parents, no one told me one way or another. Anyways....before I knew it they were squirting Hershey Syrup in his bowl for him to dip his lemon bar in. (He apparently asked for it). The moms started making some comments, faces, and before you knew it the kids at his table (not my daughter) were taunting him with things like "ewwwwwwwwwwww, that's gross", that trickled over to other tables.  I put on my stern face and told them NOT it's never nice to make fun of ANYTHING about another student.  I got some "oh, were not making fun" and I told them "oh, you are". I told them then, it wasn't being a Bucket Filler. It wasn't "Kind", or "Responsible", or "Respectful". That put an instant stop to it. But really, if it weren't for comments of adults, I don't think it would have started.

Parents pretty much run these room parties, and there is a need to know as far as personal information or plans are.....but if there weren't parties, there wouldn't be a need...

Quote from: lakeswimr on February 10, 2012, 12:03:24 PM
I agree Youknowhow, and wish someone would write all that into an article that would be able to help convince others see it this way, too.  I also do not get why it is seen as OK to leave FA kids out by people I know would NEVER be OK with it if roles were reversed.  I don't understand the thought process.  I told someone I thought it was that they valued the food more than our children's lives and that person told me it isn't that--it is that they value their idea of what they want for their child over what I want for my child.   I don't know.

Uhhh... okay, I understand that isn't an entirely "rational" statement intended to be picked apart logically...
(and I've heard similar things over the years, too, fwiw... so I suspet this is quite a common rationale)

BUT--

What THEY want for their child = FUN!  Birthday indulgence!  Feeling special-special-special in front of all his/her classmates... warm happy glow of... happiness, let's say (being generous, since I strongly suspect that in at least some cases, it might well be "smug" or "superior" instead, but how ugly is THAT?)


versus what FA moms want, which would be...

I "want" for my child = for my child to not be made:

a) dead,
b) permanently brain-damaged
c) terrified for his/her life while his/her peers and trusted authority figure(s) laugh and have fun by isolating him/her
d) made the butt of jokes or insensitive commentary by everyone in his/her surroundings


I mean, that is the comparison that we are talking about here.  It really is.   They simply don't even understand that a and b on my list are real, or that those might be "needs" rather than WANTS.

That's why I still view that statement as patently callous and selfish.  Sorry, but one person's desire to IMPROVE already good feelings/self-esteem at the price of another child's terror (or actual harm) = 'inhumane and more than a wee bit sociopathic.'

That is truly akin to the kind of thinking that serial killers use about their victims; a disengagement from them as "human" with the same fears, needs, and relevance as the killer's.  I think that other parents (cupcake queens, mind) DEHUMANIZE us and our children so that they don't have to feel guilty about what they choose to do anyway.

   

I'm room mom this year and for us, it's the teacher who is food crazy. Teacher requests no peanut products but doesn't seem to think other allergens (milk, eggs, tree nuts) are as dangerous. DS will not be attending Valentine's Day party because food activity is not safe for him. Not a battle I can fight right now and other school staff do not think it's a big deal that allergens are to be served. They want a note from doc stating it is unsafe for him to be in room during this type of activity/food function.

I asked DS if he would write something about why food activities with food allergens are dangerous and how it makes him feel. He's going to do a Power Point and he's only 10. Of course he'll get some helpful info from links provided by mom.

I agree Youknowhow, and wish someone would write all that into an article that would be able to help convince others see it this way, too.  I also do not get why it is seen as OK to leave FA kids out by people I know would NEVER be OK with it if roles were reversed.  I don't understand the thought process.  I told someone I thought it was that they valued the food more than our children's lives and that person told me it isn't that--it is that they value their idea of what they want for their child over what I want for my child.  I don't know.

The bigger question here is why are lay-people discussing another child's personal medical information.  This is not a dig against Arkadia. 

Why are room mom's in charge of food?  Why are they okay with leaving kids out? 

Why does there have to be food at every single event? 

I have been to numerous food holiday parties.  It's not the food that excites the kids - it's the crafts and the games.  Maybe I am just dense.

Quote from: CMdeux on February 10, 2012, 10:24:01 AM
OH, but it is.

LOL.

Of course, some of those explanations of goals and outcomes and assessment methods stretch the bounds of credibility so far that I have trouble believing that anyone could possibly say them aloud with a straight face...



but they are fulfilling some curriculum objective somewhere, I assure you.     Because, see, there isn't any way to stop educators from basically lying through their teeth about it-- and they DO.  Regularly.


"Eating M&M's art in class will give children greater familiarity with color identification and the use of novel media in art.  The lesson objectives include:  1) improved color awareness, b) improving sensory awareness in the areas of tasting and seeing, and c) mastery of the imaginative process needed to create individual artwork intended only for the artist.  These objectives will be measured by informal teacher assessment during the lesson, and by self-reflective activies for the children (they will be creating edible art)."

(and no, I just made that one up, but HONESTLY, I have seen this done so many times that I could do one of these in my sleep and so could most other educators.)
It's delusional.

You may have made it up, this is the exact mantra that my school keeps trying to shove down my throat every time I dare mention removing food from the classroom.

OH, but it is.

LOL.

Of course, some of those explanations of goals and outcomes and assessment methods stretch the bounds of credibility so far that I have trouble believing that anyone could possibly say them aloud with a straight face...



but they are fulfilling some curriculum objective somewhere, I assure you.     Because, see, there isn't any way to stop educators from basically lying through their teeth about it-- and they DO.  Regularly.


"Eating M&M's art in class will give children greater familiarity with color identification and the use of novel media in art.  The lesson objectives include:  1) improved color awareness, b) improving sensory awareness in the areas of tasting and seeing, and c) mastery of the imaginative process needed to create individual artwork intended only for the artist.  These objectives will be measured by informal teacher assessment during the lesson, and by self-reflective activies for the children (they will be creating edible art)."

(and no, I just made that one up, but HONESTLY, I have seen this done so many times that I could do one of these in my sleep and so could most other educators.)
It's delusional. 

I did think that, but really , that doesnt sound good.   If the uk schools had this as a topic included in planning, EVERY area would be linked, and proven to fullfill  the national curriculum!