My dd has definately reacted with a swollen eye to residue.  Residue from others having had nuts or PB on the surface where she was later.  One instance, I knew and washed it well, and she still had a reaction.  It was her eyes, each time, and not anyphylactic.  But very uncomfortable.  She was upset and feeling like something was in her eye.  But then the swelling was the kicker.  As if she had a bug bite or something.  Resolved quickly once washed up and if I had benadryl on hand(once I did not). 

Nowadays, though, she can be at a baseball park withour problems.  We have also been at a basketball game and had a guy shelling peanuts behind us and she was fine.  So, she seems less sensetive to this exposure.  As I am sure PN is on surfaces at these venues. 

But I imagine the orchard type environment you describe is loaded.  If people walk in the orchards with dropped nuts on the ground, then on their shoes, come in the home, and then consume nuts all the time inside, there is bound to be alot of residue and chance for contact. 

Maybe benadryl or an antihistamine would help if you must go there? 

Quote from: brownie on August 22, 2012, 07:27:21 AM
My ds's can be next to someone eating a peanut butter sandwich but that's different from dust, crumbs and oil being everywhere and even potentially making into your mouth via other food.

Brownie,

Yes, exactly. I think in my original post I made it sound like the idea of walnut trees existing on the property was going to cause a major reaction for me. But I really don't know that there are no proteins anywhere else but the nut itself, and in the process of refining slabs of raw, fresh-cut wood in a commercial shop, particles are released everywhere, and with force, so they spread far and wide. I can make my son toast with Nutella and it doesn't bother me at all (except the memory of how yummy it is ), but I have had reactions in grocery stores just from some combo of contact via the cart and airborne, I think. It always is worst when I hit the bakery aisles. (It was really bad until I learned, via these boards, to always wipe down the cart before I shop. That helps a lot. I think I can handle whatever I'm reacting to in the air without the added insult of a sticky cart handle residue.) It is like the example Dr. Wood gives in the dummies book, that proximity to peanut butter would not be as problematic as being near someone shelling peanuts, which spews particles in the air. With peanut butter, it's bound up and not airborne. A tree minding it's own business is probably not a problem. But your son sitting on the ground under a tree and all its detritus and then possibly putting hands in mouth, or me spending time in a situation where years of dust and residue are everywhere, are maybe a little different.

Thanks for sharing that!
Swaygirl

DS9 played soccer under a walnut tree 2 summers ago.  He spent some time on the ground.  His eyes swelled shut.  This kid is off the charts PA and very high to walnut but has NEVER had any other rxn (mostly thanks to luck and his older brother being diagnosed when he was 6mths old).  We didn't realize the walnut tree was there until after.  It is hanging over the neighbor's yard but grows in their neighbor's yard so we didn't think to note what kind of tree it was.

So now we know he is contact sensitive.  I think it's worse for kids because they tend to put their fingers in their mouths, rub their eyes, etc...but clearly this is a problem for some people.  My ds's can be next to someone eating a peanut butter sandwich but that's different from dust, crumbs and oil being everywhere and even potentially making into your mouth via other food.

Brownie

Quote from: maeve on August 17, 2012, 03:44:04 PM
SwayGirl, please trust your instincts.  I'm still learning after 11 years how to manage my DD's allergy and how to pass on what I learned.  One thing I have learned is to be vigilant and trust your instincts.  If you don't sense that the people around you get it, then get away from them even it if means leaving a restaurant or party.  Don't hesitate to speak up for yourself.  We recently removed peanuts that were set out at my nephew's graduation and put them away somewhere before DD had a chance to see them.  Thankfully, there were outside on a patio but we still watched her.  (Though to be honest her exposure to the two cats and the dog in the house were as just as great a concern).

Maeve, thanks for the pep talk. I clearly need it. I'm still a bit surprised at how much I can doubt myself, when I am generally a very confident person and don't have a problem taking decisive action if I feel it's necessary. I hope that out of every experience like this trip I can get a step closer to where I need to be. I am definitely far more certain, usually, about what I'm feeling physically. But sometimes I find that I shy away from taking action, whether to remove myself or ask for help or take measures to treat a reaction... I suppose I'm pretty well socialized to suck it up and not be a drama queen, and when family or friends haven't adjusted to my new reality either, there's a lot of downplaying or minimizing on all fronts.

I do think the information about how safe certain situations "should" be has played into creating slivers of doubt in my mind, because these things shouldn't bother me, right? The comments I've gotten in this thread have really helped to adjust my perspective on these "shoulds" and "shouldn'ts" and added much needed clarity. As always, I am so grateful for the support I've found here. It's a steep learning curve, these allergies, but thankfully every day I am learning.

Swaygirl

Quote from: CMdeux on August 17, 2012, 11:31:05 AM
I agree with Rebekah.

This is exactly how my DD always felt when staying at my mom's house.  Always.

It was not anxiety in her case-- it was the fact that the allergen was just everywhere. 

Now, do most people have to worry about this kind of thing?  Absolutely not.

This makes so much sense to me, and it's a great way to frame the discussion. I guess, being new to FAs, on some level I'm still acclimating to the fact that I HAVE an allergy, and have had a harder time grasping that I might be an outlier whose reactions are unusual or that my threshold tolerance might be unusually low. I guess, subconsciously, I figured that if it's adult-onset it couldn't possibly be as severe as another's lifelong allergy. Not sure there's any logic or science to that, and I didn't quite realize I was discounting my instincts so often on that basis. I kept wanting to fit in that 95%, but I just don't think I do.

Quote from: CMdeux on August 17, 2012, 11:31:05 AM
We've found that aerosol exposures are much more problematic than contact ones.  Contact is no big deal-- unless/until it becomes INGESTION.  Aerosol exposures tend to produce systemic effects for my DD (and myself with shellfish).  Contact is just local and can be dealt with via washing affected skin.

This is my experience as well. Airborne exposures have been a repeated problem for me. Contact, I usually just get itchy/hivey but can wash it off and/or pop a benadryl and I'm ok. Grocery stores are problematic, though, because I think a combo of contact via cart plus airborne stuff has left me woozy and dizzy on more than one occasion.

Quote from: CMdeux on August 17, 2012, 11:31:05 AM
FWIW, my DD has had three separate, severe anaphylactic reactions from occult exposures to her allergens.  One of those resulted in a loss of consciousness with almost no other major symptoms.  I think you're right to be highly concerned.

But not about walnut WOOD.  The wood contains none of the seed-storage proteins present in the nuts.  Just because you're allergic to chickens doesn't mean you can't eat eggs, if you KWIM, adn people who are allergic to milk don't need to avoid beef.

I should probably clarify that I didn't really think the walnut wood was allergenic, but I wasn't totally certain it wasn't either (I mean, the airborne particulates produced in the commercial wood shop on the property), and at that point it just started to seem, on almost a comical level, like I was surrounded by nuts! The kiln spews out minute particles all the time, and I did wonder about it!

Quote from: CMdeux on August 17, 2012, 11:31:05 AM
One practical suggestion?  LIMIT your time in this kind of environment, and maintain a safe retreat.  We have done this by staying in a hotel rather than with family.

Sigh. Yes, that's kind of the conclusion I've come to as well. It will be a HUGE problem for DS, but I suppose he can stay with them (he loves it there, out in the country with tons of room to run and play) and DH and I can have a weekend to ourselves in a hotel in town. Doesn't sound too bad!

Thanks so much for your thoughts. I really appreciate the perspective!

Swaygirl

Quote from: rebekahc on August 17, 2012, 10:38:45 AM
I don't care what "conventional wisdom" says or even the experiences of an allergic doctor.  I know that I have airborne reactions.  It's been proven time and time again over the past 40 years. 

My airborne reactions sound very similar to yours - wheezy, tight chest, itchy skin (especially on face around eyes and forehead), sneezing, red & swollen eyes, itchy throat - are all common when I've had airborne-only exposure.  Basically, I feel like a cat sat on my face.  I've also experienced hives and rash on exposed skin (arms), but only a couple of times.

My guess is that in your instance, it was a combination of airborne and contact exposure.  I would assume that multiple bowls of nuts out in the rooms are a common occurrence, so most likely everything you touched had years worth of residue on it - kind of like what would happen to a cat or dog allergic person spending several days in a house with indoor pets even if the pets are not in the room while there.

Oh, that makes me feel so much better to know that someone else has a similar reaction (although I'm sorry you have to experience it too). That's a really good point about the years of residue. Thanks for making me feel a little less crazy!

Swaygirl

Quote from: hezzier on August 17, 2012, 09:26:49 AM
First trip since diagnosis, eating at some else's house and tree nut orchards...these would be huge anxiety triggers in my world.  DS is only 8 so I don't know how much of the anxiety he actually feels, but mine would be great.  DS would definitely have been freaked out by bowls of nuts and the orchards, but he is not contact reactive.

For example, DH and I have been at odds with each other this week...reason=school started Wednesday.  My anxiety was through the roof with a new teacher and no permanent nurse hired.  He had no idea.


Came back to add:
I am not trying to discount your experience as a reaction.  Only you can know how/what you felt.  The one thing I can say is that I have learned not to discount my son when he says he's having a reaction.  If your gut says reaction, then you've got to treat it as if it is.

Yes, I think in the end it was a fun cocktail of anxiety at a new and stressful situation combined with actual trace exposures that eventually left me feeling pretty crummy all the way around. I hope the school has hired a nurse, or at least a competent temp. I can only imagine that would be incredibly stressful!

Thanks for your thoughts!
Swaygirl

Quote from: rebekahc on August 17, 2012, 10:38:45 AM
I don't care what "conventional wisdom" says or even the experiences of an allergic doctor.  I know that I have airborne reactions.  It's been proven time and time again over the past 40 years. 

My airborne reactions sound very similar to yours - wheezy, tight chest, itchy skin (especially on face around eyes and forehead), sneezing, red & swollen eyes, itchy throat - are all common when I've had airborne-only exposure.  Basically, I feel like a cat sat on my face.  I've also experienced hives and rash on exposed skin (arms), but only a couple of times.

My guess is that in your instance, it was a combination of airborne and contact exposure.  I would assume that multiple bowls of nuts out in the rooms are a common occurrence, so most likely everything you touched had years worth of residue on it - kind of like what would happen to a cat or dog allergic person spending several days in a house with indoor pets even if the pets are not in the room while there.

I agree. I too have had airborne reactions. One of them was pretty nasty.

GN, I live in the DC area and I have to say that even in the dead of winter, there's something that sets me off.  There's really something weird about this area allergy-wise.

You've gotten good advice Swaygirl.

One thing I'm going to add, is not to discount the presence of an unknown allergen when you're in a different environment.  For example, I have no idea what the heck blooms down in the D.C. area, but unless it's the dead of winter both younger DS and I react horribly to something there.  The true FA I have to is cantaloupe; he's the one with multiple FA's. 

We always stay with my MIL when we visit, but after our last visit with DS (over 2 years ago) we decided that if he was with us we would stay in a hotel from now on.  It's just too exhausting dealing with the constant FA reminders. 

Maeve, I'm glad that you understood that my comment was basically that such statements are good general advice.... but may simultaneously be bad particular advice for an individual, depending upon circumstances and history.

Learning to trust one's own instincts in managing food allergies is a real high wire act at first.  It does get easier to do that with time, Swaygirl.   

Quote from: rebekahc on August 17, 2012, 01:20:42 PM
Maeve, I'm so sorry you feel attacked   

QuoteI know I've seen some here who say that it should be fine to be in the same room. And in the Dummies book the author makes that point repeatedly.

I was in no way attacking you - my intent was to refute this statement and Dr. Wood's stance on the issue as mentioned in the original post.

Thanks RebekahC.  I also did not in anyway want to dismiss the poster's concerns or the experiences of others. 

I think CMDeux made a good point that Dr. Wood's advice is probably applicable to a very good percentage of the FA but there will always be outliers.  I think the advice given to the OP to remove themselves from the situation and to limit time spent in those situations is good.

In fact, I was very heartened by our school meeting today when all the staff present told DD that she should never hesitate to remove herself from a situation where she feels unsafe because of her allergies.

SwayGirl, please trust your instincts.  I'm still learning after 11 years how to manage my DD's allergy and how to pass on what I learned.  One thing I have learned is to be vigilant and trust your instincts.  If you don't sense that the people around you get it, then get away from them even it if means leaving a restaurant or party.  Don't hesitate to speak up for yourself.  We recently removed peanuts that were set out at my nephew's graduation and put them away somewhere before DD had a chance to see them.  Thankfully, there were outside on a patio but we still watched her.  (Though to be honest her exposure to the two cats and the dog in the house were as just as great a concern).

My DD can not shop in stores that have those nut crushing machines like Whole Foods - nuts to nut butters.  I use to forget and bring her and then we'd be in the car with her inhaler and bendryl.  It took a few times and then I got the message.

She'd be grabbing her chest and mouth before we were ever near the aisle.

Not everyone has airborne and yes can be around their allergen in the air.  My DD can not.

Maeve, I'm so sorry you feel attacked   

QuoteI know I've seen some here who say that it should be fine to be in the same room. And in the Dummies book the author makes that point repeatedly.

I was in no way attacking you - my intent was to refute this statement and Dr. Wood's stance on the issue as mentioned in the original post.

Sorry but cannot help but feel like I'm being attacked.  BTW, Dr. Wood (whom you'll remember had a reaction himself to unseen trace amount of peanut on a spatula that require 5 shots of epinepherine) also goes to baseball games and is around his allergen in uncontrolled settings.  I was just trying to assure the OP, that Dr. Wood is certainly a source that one can trust.

I agree that there are those who will react in the setting the OP was in and in that setting contact reaction is highly likely.  However, I don't think you can discount anxiety playing a role (especially the fear of being around the wood of the walnut tree when it is the protein in the fruit of the tree that carries the allergenic protein).

Bottom line is for the allergic person to listen to their body and not what anyone else says.  It's better to remove yourself from the situation as the OP did, than to risk teasing out whether it's nerves or a reaction.