More on Exclusion ... (notnutty) <18-page thread reconstruct in progress>

[ajasfolks2]

Page 9, original thread

Arkadia

Cm said something totally sh***y to me. can't you admit that?

Hey--I'm not the one trying to make it into a contest.  We don't need oneupsmanship around here.  But the fact that some of our kids aren't at b/m schools doesn't mean their advocacy is any less--or less work frankly.

Egads.  I am not even sure what "own it" means here. 

But NN4M is right -- we may have different opinions on this issue, but knowing we've got support here is what helps us individually and as a community. 

Arkadia

And the fact some of us won't crucify a parent who would allow their own child to have not the exact same treat as the others doesn't mean we are moraly ethically reprobate in that regard either. I don't suppose my way to parent is the only appropriate way either.

I could get the hang of this touchscreen if it just moved faster.

my3guys

A mom who has an older child with an allergy whose grade would not be participating in the feast threw a fit.  She complained to the principal about the feast, the turkeys, me and on and on.  The principal was caught in the middle between 2 allergy moms.

What was the other allergy mom's issue? The one that didn't even have a child in this grade?

Did you have to pay for the extra turkey breasts?

I agreed with her allergy issue -- that the turkey could possibly be cross-contaminated.  It was a small possibility IMO, but still there.  But since none of the other allergy parents objected, and I was offering a nut free turkey breast, I thought the issue was addressed.  As I told the principal, I viewed any of those dishes as possible cross-contamination risks, and even if my ds just had a nut allergy, I wouldn't let him eat that food.  The other food allergy parents did let their kids eat the food though -- either restaurant prepared or made in others' homes without a peep.

No, I didn't pay for the extra breasts. Phew.

my3guys

And the fact some of us won't crucify a parent who would allow their own child to have not the exact same treat as the others doesn't mean we are moraly ethically reprobate in that regard either. I don't suppose my way to parent is the only appropriate way either.

I could get the hang of this touchscreen if it just moved faster.

I think this is important too.  I didn't mean to imply that any parent who let their child have a different treat was wrong or that they weren't doing enough for their child.  Hopefully my posts didn't come across that way.  I was just trying to point out that some children really do have issues with exclusion, and that they're not driven by what bothers the parent.

The fact that we can't agree here speaks volumes of how confusing this whole issue must be for schools.  Of course in my completely biased mind, I think the solution is to remove food from the classrooms altoghter.

Arkadia

I will take issue however with the parent of a food allergic child who brings food for everyone who is not all inclusive. Actually I'm for food free classrooms and expect parentsof allergic children topull that off when possible.

Sometimes though we find ourselves in a no win situationand just have to work to make the best of it as we are able. That or a expect a scorched earth policy to be the order of the day.
I don't have any respect for martyrs. It's a cop out.

And the fact some of us won't crucify a parent who would allow their own child to have not the exact same treat as the others doesn't mean we are moraly ethically reprobate in that regard either. I don't suppose my way to parent is the only appropriate way either.

I could get the hang of this touchscreen if it just moved faster.

Arkadia

I think we were focussing this peaceably unfilled someoneimplied being okay with it meant slithering away from what is #right# so as not to be inconvienienced.  It wasn't you.

As if you know? It's not about one upmanship. Ijust won't stand for that kind of b.s. having been where I have.  Sure that's the result of 14 and one half years.< smiley>

And the fact some of us won't crucify a parent who would allow their own child to have not the exact same treat as the others doesn't mean we are moraly ethically reprobate in that regard either. I don't suppose my way to parent is the only appropriate way either.

I could get the hang of this touchscreen if it just moved faster.

I think this is important too.  I didn't mean to imply that any parent who let their child have a different treat was wrong or that they weren't doing enough for their child.  Hopefully my posts didn't come across that way.  I was just trying to point out that some children really do have issues with exclusion, and that they're not driven by what bothers the parent.

The fact that we can't agree here speaks volumes of how confusing this whole issue must be for schools.  Of course in my completely biased mind, I think the solution is to remove food from the classrooms altoghter.

Arkadia

That last post of mine is really a typographical texting abortion. Discussing. Imeant discussing. Not fosssiwhatever.

GailW

Would you please describe a scorched earth policy?  Is making a policy for "food-free classrooms" such a scorched earth policy? 

( I know you've most likely answered this in previous threads, but if you could state it her for my convenience, I'd appreciate it.)

Arkadia

The policy is the easy part. Enforcing it is the matter.most wellness policies are basically food free mandates /guidelines. Lol---guidelines.

Anyways.

For an example of scortched earth....see my hot lunch three quad might. Know where it is. Really though I need a real keyboard......to address this well.

Gail

Would you please describe a Pscorched earth policy?  Is making a policy for "food-free classrooms" such a scorched earth policy? 

( I know you've most likely answered this in previous threads, but if you could state it her for my convenience, I'd appreciate it.)

Arkadia

Quad?  How did I get quad?  I meant thread and ajasfolks.    Ohhhhh.....auto-complete.  How anyone enjoys texting is beyond me.

YouKnowWho

I know school is not the real world.  But at some point my kids are going to have learn the navigate the world themselves.  For us, it's a life or death situation.  This isn't "Oops, I missed curfew" or "Gee no one told me I would have to pay off the credit card".

It's a part of who they are - whether they like it or not.

Do they offer driver's ed to those who need specialized cars in school - ours never did.  Do those kids still need lessons in driving, sure?

What are they going to do for work?  When they have lunch meetings or conferences?  Only a few of us are in a position to change those.  Yes, I understand someone with inhalation allergies to seafood won't be hitting Red Lobster, but there are other options out there.  You figure out a way to cater it safely.

What about social events?  Do I want my child to miss out on prom because a meal is involved?  No, I want him to know there are ways to navigate around it.  Okay, going to Subway isn't the best option out there for him but there are plenty of other options on the table.

Again, it's what having mfa's have made me wrap my head around.  Yeah it's great for those who have rules in place for prepared foods only (can only think on one hand those that are safe for one child that most children would enjoy).  And food free would be fabulous, but then I would miss out on the journey DS1 has had to figure out how to make things safe for him in class/life. 

Real life, school - it doesn't matter, these are skills he needs to live.

Momcat

And food free would be fabulous, but then I would miss out on the journey DS1 has had to figure out how to make things safe for him in class/life. 

Real life, school - it doesn't matter, these are skills he needs to live.

IMHO, we get plenty of opportunities to practice these skills outside of school.

GingerPye

ooof, I know I shouldn't get into this but .....

I'm kind of with boo on this, that I would, in hindsight, make a bigger stink about no food in the classroom.  I went into it in the early grades thinking I should not "inconvenience" the school with my child's FA, and that my kids need to get used to having FA in the real world.  So I made it work; they always have their own version of the treats or else I provide for the whole class.  And there are plenty of other opportunities outside of school to deal with FA in the real world, unfortunately.

I would have loved no food in the classroom.  It doesn't need to be there, or at least no food except for the few holiday parties.  It's really getting to be ridiculous, how much food is being used.  DS had a teacher who gave the kids Smarties every day because she wanted them to be smart       Crazy.

Anyway.  DS is in his last year at the elem. school, so we'll continue as we have been.  In jr high it is almost no food, unless he gets a certain teacher for homeroom who loves to eat . . .

Arkadia, I really do try to understand your posts --- I think you do have some valuable info --- but the texting makes it almost impossible for me to understand!  Is your computer not working?

GingerPye

DD will have an eighth-grade dinner/dance this spring and the meal is the big thing; it's like a graduation dinner. She's going, although I haven't a clue how to make it work at this point. But I have taught my kids that they can participate, no matter what; that we'll make it work. I don't want them ever to not participate in something because of the food. That the event/people/socializing is the bigger part of it.

YouKnowWho

Do you insist parents at parties outside of school make safe food for your kids?

What about family events?  (it's easy to say no nuts - not so easy to say no gluten, egg, mushrooms, soy, peanuts and tree nuts and btw, can you toss your pans, buy new ones and start from scratch on many of your staples that might be cross contaminated).

Yes, I have vented my frustration about food in the classroom.  It's a journey for me too.  But really, it's my boys journey.  They need to feel the most comfortable with being different than their peers.  And I hope by teaching them to be happy with what's on their plate, it is what it is.

And yes, I say this knowing that I have not started a college fund for the kids yet, but they do have a counseling fund 

End page 9

[ajasfolks2]

Begin Pg 10, original thread

YouKnowWho

And food free would be fabulous, but then I would miss out on the journey DS1 has had to figure out how to make things safe for him in class/life. 

Real life, school - it doesn't matter, these are skills he needs to live.

IMHO, we get plenty of opportunities to practice these skills outside of school.

True, but when you let your guard down for a minute that is when things go horribly wrong.  Better to keep your radar working 24/7 and not be lulled into a false complacency.

GingerPye

Do you insist parents at parties outside of school make safe food for your kids?

What about family events?  (it's easy to say no nuts - not so easy to say no gluten, egg, mushrooms, soy, peanuts and tree nuts and btw, can you toss your pans, buy new ones and start from scratch on many of your staples that might be cross contaminated).

Yes, I have vented my frustration about food in the classroom.  It's a journey for me too.  But really, it's my boys journey.  They need to feel the most comfortable with being different than their peers.  And I hope by teaching them to be happy with what's on their plate, it is what it is.

And yes, I say this knowing that I have not started a college fund for the kids yet, but they do have a counseling fund 

   I agree with this, YKW, that the kids need to learn how to deal with the food around them.  If these allergies are a lifelong thing, then they have got to have the tools to deal with it all.  Unfortunately. 

LOL about the counseling fund --- we do have a college fund but hadn't thought of the counseling fund --- and maybe that needs to happen at our house, too!   :rotf:

Arkadia

DD will have an eighth-grade dinner/dance this spring and the meal is the big thing; it's like a graduation dinner. 

Yup.  As a parent of a 14 year old, I can attest to the fact there is the non-negotiable food after cupcakes are long gone.  Don't forget the Band Spaghetti Dinner. "Food Free" classrooms aren't the issue. It's everything else. Bowling Club. Band Tours. The Band trip to Disney. Away games. Athletic and Band Camps.

Arkadia

And food free would be fabulous, but then I would miss out on the journey DS1 has had to figure out how to make things safe for him in class/life. 

Real life, school - it doesn't matter, these are skills he needs to live.

IMHO, we get plenty of opportunities to practice these skills outside of school.

Speaking of which, my son is on Day 2 of the during school hours Band Tour. He really enjoyed yesterday, got to see his little brother in the audience at the elementary school, and I think tomorrow, he performs for Izzy!

GingerPye

yep, Arkadia, you are right about that --- we've already done the band mentor/pizza party at the high school this fall.  I know, there are going to be many more things like that --- but she knows how to make her pizza and we're working on other things, too ---

and she's planning her 9th grade trip to DisneyWorld --- scares me silly .....

Arkadia

Do you insist parents at parties outside of school make safe food for your kids?

What about family events?  (it's easy to say no nuts - not so easy to say no gluten, egg, mushrooms, soy, peanuts and tree nuts and btw, can you toss your pans, buy new ones and start from scratch on many of your staples that might be cross contaminated).

Yes, I have vented my frustration about food in the classroom.  It's a journey for me too.  But really, it's my boys journey.  They need to feel the most comfortable with being different than their peers.  And I hope by teaching them to be happy with what's on their plate, it is what it is.

QFT, especially the venting part, and truly, food free classrooms enable us to ignore that obligation more than being okay with another parent who allows their child a safe treat box.

Arkadia

Arkadia, I really do try to understand your posts --- I think you do have some valuable info --- but the texting makes it almost impossible for me to understand!  Is your computer not working?

It's working now.  Wasn't working this morning, I had to reset my connection (according to the diagnositics). I was typing from the touch screen of my phone now.  I'll be back later if I'm not at work, but I'm taking my girls and grammie out to eat. One more post.

Arkadia

http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=367&start=106

PinkCat

Wow! This post has given me so much to think about . . .

I fought for my 4 y.o. to have a separate allergen-free table. She has MLTFA and has a history of severe reactions to very tiny amounts. I was terrified she would accidentally ingest a crumb of another student's lunch and end up in anaphylaxis. She also has asthma, so I am even more concerned about preventing accidental ingestion of her allergens. Some folks here are saying they regret the separate tables. But I'm curious how they handled the safety aspect then? I just don't know how else to keep her safe.

While lunch is simply part of my DD's program, serving cr*p (cupcakes, candy, cookies, etc.) seems very irresponsible from a PUBLIC HEALTH PERSPECTIVE. The U.S. has a childhood obesity epidemic. Children are getting obesity-related conditions/illnesses, previously a rarity in children, in droves. What about augmenting the food exclusion efforts by thumping-on-the-public=health-handbook about how irresponsible it is for the schools to contribute to this epidemic? I understand some districts are increasingly banning cupcakes, etc., based on the childhood obesity epidemic. From my experience, walking in with handouts from the CDC, armed with statistics, etc., as opposed to simply reciting hte difficulty of childhood obesity is more effective.

Tracking back to earlier thoughts, hopechapel raised a very good issue, I thought. How many of these conversations about food allergies occur in front of our children and what is the impact on them? My DD is very concerned about her food allergies. She shoves labels in my face and demands that I read them.

GingerPye

Well, if I'm not mistaken, I think some members here have used that approach about childhood obesity. It is such an ingrained part of our society and our schools --- it's really going to take some major doing to get the food out of the schools. There are people who would fight tooth-and-nail to keep the food/treats in the schools.

Our school has gone to pre-packaged treats in the last few years -- with a guideline of a certain limit on fats and sugar -- but I still see the homemade treats come in pretty regularly. Some parents ignore it.
As for the allergen-free table --- I think you have to assess the situation for your child --- if your child comes in contact with a crumb and has a reaction, then an allergy-free table would be the way to go. My kids seem not to have those kind of contact reactions. I know some kids do.

Many of our FA conversations do occur in front of our kids --- kind of on purpose. I want them to hear the discussions and understand the reasoning behind the things we do. They don't hear the discussions where I'm bawling about some aspect of FA . . . but they do hear when I'm upset (not crying) about something that has happened or didn't happen, and what I'm trying to do about it. How we deal with it. My kids knew early on about their FA and could tell people what they were allergic to. They knew not to put anything in their mouths that wasn't okayed by Mom or Dad. It's unfortunate, but I feel that this fear and anxiety they have of their allergens just cannot be avoided. It may keep them safe someday.

Scout

Well this will make me so unpopular here but:

Last night I took dd to CCD, PARTY=nothing safe--we left....no biggee.
she was fine, I had a tear in my eye, my son held my hand and she giggled and said "MOM, remember -better safe than sorry"...we went home, took ds to basketball never talked about it.....done.

tonight big dance party, no nuts allowed but she will take her own food.....
tommorrow- big potluck at school in cafeteria- (food free room)...I may just keep her home the first 2hrs if she is ok with that or I will take her own food...

Friday....candy train (in cafeteria) I ordered her own candy from PFP>

She is VERY popular and well liked at school and so we have no issues with her feeling left out......all her treat bags are always made seperate for her....
we are Blessed with friends who care......enough to keep her safe.

But the kids DO LOVE these things at school....they all do.....even her...it does get old sometimes, but really she will always have to eat other things always.....she just will.....

Most of the time it is all safe......the candy train I was not willing to foot the bill from pfp for 48 kids.....

so they will use milky ways - only non safe things for her, she has a safe Mars bar...all other candy is safe....easy.

Gail

I will take issue however with the parent of a food allergic child who brings food for everyone who is not all inclusive. Actually I'm for food free classrooms and expect parents of allergic children to pull that off when possible.

Sometimes though we find ourselves in a no win situation and just have to work to make the best of it as we are able. That or a expect a scorched earth policy to be the order of the day.

I re-read the other thread.  To clarify, are you saying that a scorched earth policy is no food at all?  That food-free classrooms are just one aspect--  that if one argues for food-free classrooms then one may receive a no-food-anywhere response? 

lakeswimr

And the fact some of us won't crucify a parent who would allow their own child to have not the exact same treat as the others doesn't mean we are moraly ethically reprobate in that regard either. I don't suppose my way to parent is the only appropriate way either.

I could get the hang of this touchscreen if it just moved faster.

There--that's a clear opinion. That is the type of thing I wanted to see.  I *thought* it sounded like that's what you think but I could not tell.

lakeswimr

Well this will make me so unpopular here but:

Last night I took dd to CCD, PARTY=nothing safe--we left....no biggee.
she was fine, I had a tear in my eye, my son held my hand and she giggled and said "MOM, remember -better safe than sorry"...we went home, took ds to basketball never talked about it.....done.

tonight big dance party, no nuts allowed but she will take her own food.....
tommorrow- big potluck at school in cafeteria- (food free room)...I may just keep her home the first 2hrs if she is ok with that or I will take her own food...

Friday....candy train (in cafeteria) I ordered her own candy from PFP>

She is VERY popular and well liked at school and so we have no issues with her feeling left out......all her treat bags are always made seperate for her....
we are Blessed with friends who care......enough to keep her safe.

But the kids DO LOVE these things at school....they all do.....even her...it does get old sometimes, but really she will always have to eat other things always.....she just will.....

Most of the time it is all safe......the candy train I was not willing to foot the bill from pfp for 48 kids.....

so they will use milky ways - only non safe things for her, she has a safe Mars bar...all other candy is safe....easy.

I think a lot like you.  I would rather there not be food and I will push for that when I can but I'm not going to burn my bridges with the school over this type of issue.  Not worth it.  I will fight to the end to keep DS safe.  I would politely work with the school if DS were upset by any food allergy policy but I won't make war over this issue.  DS LIKES the food events.  If I were at your child's school I would try to get them to have LESS food events probably but I'd do so in a 'working with' type of way.

I think it is FINE the way you do things, esp since your daughter doesn't have any issues with this.

I am like you.  I have posted before that I WANT DS to be happy with eating things that are different than others eat.  I do not think everyone has to have the same food to be 'fair'.  As a veggie I NEVER want to make everyone else eat the way I do and I certainly don't want to eat meat.  I grew up this way since age 7.  No scars.  Plenty of teasing from others but I dealt with it.  Thankfully DS hasn't been teased or bullied.  He is happy with eating his own safe food.  I am thinking now of one time I asked him last year if it bothered him that his food is different and he said very emphatically, "why would I want to eat unsafe food?  I don't want to have a reaction!  Of course I want my own special, safe food, Mom!"  I asked if it wasn't more fun when everyone got the same food.  He really could care less as long as his food is good.  If his food wasn't as good as others he would care.

He also advocates well.  Last year he pointed out that everyone else got juice and a piece of cake and he and the other FA child only got a cupcake so he also got a popsicle, too!  He was very happy and felt he got 'more' than the other kids.  I think he works the system sometimes to his benefit.  LOL!

Anyway, I'm glad you posted because I think there are actually MORE FA parents who feel like you and I do than who feel the way the majority seem to feel here.  You should feel perfectly fine saying how you feel even if it isn't a majority opinion here.

Scout

yes, I only have PA and avoiding tna so it does make it easier for me.

when she was a toddler we also had egg adn soy, she has since outgrown those and passed food challenges in Dr. office, huge change in life....

There was a cookie, 100% SAFE for all, event for Halloween, and root beer floats for a science experiment--I brought safe ice cream, kids went to Science lab and had a blast....

Christmas around the world/ candy train, then a Valentine thing....then no more food until last day party...

They gave me all this info before the school year started so I have been well informed....EVERYTHING else is amazing for dd... so we all make it work.

She really (at this time in her life) does not care, in fact she went to a bday party with an ice cream cake and a few of the kids kept saying "can I have a cupcake like McKenna?"

Yes, it may change with time, and I really have only two allergies.
but for now we are good....and happy and well liked-----and yes that counts for little girls., if all i have to do is place an order from pfp to make all good, why not...?

End page 10

[ajasfolks2]

Begin page 11, original thread:

(12/15/2009)

Ryansmom:

I try to work things to my advantage, although some will disagree with my methods.

Take CCD, for example, as mentioned above. The last day before Christmas and Easter we skip. It's a "Sleep in, dear Son!" kind of day. I didn't trust anyone to have safe foods, nor did I feel like trying to keep it safe. It's a church, not a public school. I've worked it in the younger years, but have decided to let him stay home on those days if he wants. Now he doesn't not have to attend CCD anymore because it isn't mandatory after Confirmation where we live.

Then last year in 6th grade, there was some Medieval Times kind of trip. The students went to see some big play in NJ and on the way back they stopped at a restaurant for some 7-course dinner. The dinner was one of the highlight of the trip. Considering I've been on every field trip for Ryan since Kindergarten, *I* particularly didn't want to go. The restaurant trip WOULD feel like exclusion to him. The issue for me was that he didn't have to go on the field trip. I didn't want to go on the field trip either. So I asked him point blank, "Do you want to go on the field trip or take a day off from school and go see Star Trek?" Can you guess what he picked? Yep, the movie. He was so thrilled. Just him and me. A mother/son date.

Is this the right thing to do? No. Educationally speaking that is. And I'm a former teacher with two teaching degrees to boot. But it was what HE wanted to do. And we both had a great time. Sometimes, I told him, it's kind of nice having a food allergy  . He agreed. It's how we make lemons out of lemonade. The downside? My 3 other kids pestering me why Ryan gets to go to the movies when they never get to miss school like this. I do a headsmack for them. You wouldn't believe how a 17 and 15-year old teen can complain so much. As soon as I remind them, they shut their mouths. They realize they have nothing to complain about.

As Ryan ages, my methodologies on how I deal with food allergies have changed. And he's always been an integral part of the decision-making process. Much less in the younger years, but much more now.

Ryan has always commented through the years how he's glad he has a food allergy (if you can believe it). The reason is because, since he always brings his own food, he always gets what he likes. He never has to eat something that is just so-so or downright gross.

Ryansmom

Things would have been so different for me if it was one of my girls or youngest son that had a food allergy. If any of my children had to have it, Ryan is THE one. I have been very lucky in that respect. Very lucky! His personality makes things so much easier.

And he has the utmost respect for other kids with eating issues. His one friend has celiac. So when Ryan wanted to bring in a treat for his birthday, he chose pudding cups--something his friend could definitely eat. He didn't necessarily choose something he wanted (although he likes pudding), but thought of what everyone could have to celebrate.

ETA...compassion and empathy. I tell ya, it's a wonderful thing!

GingerPye

yeah, my kids tell me occasionally --- sometimes it's good to have FA --- usually this is when a treat is served that they don't like, or the other kids want what my kids are having!

Ryansmom, I think it is fine to stay home on those party/field trip days. I asked DS if he wanted to miss the Valentine party coming up in Feb (we're planning a trip that weekend) --- he does not want to miss it, even though it's a bunch of food that he usually can't have. He wants to be there for the social part of it.

booandbrimom

I know school is not the real world.  But at some point my kids are going to have learn the navigate the world themselves.  For us, it's a life or death situation.  This isn't "Oops, I missed curfew" or "Gee no one told me I would have to pay off the credit card".

It's a part of who they are - whether they like it or not.

Do they offer driver's ed to those who need specialized cars in school - ours never did.  Do those kids still need lessons in driving, sure?

You're missing the point. If driving were a fundamental part of the curriculum and there was a way to make a reasonable accommodation for these students, then yes, schools would need to come up with it. Inclusion means inclusion.

My son has had limitless opportunities to practice his food-avoidance skills. I do not believe he would have been less prepared to deal with this if he hadn't always confronted food in schools. Do you really believe your children wouldn't have caught on without cupcakes in schools?

What educational benefit does food in schools have? Other than as a crutch for lazy teachers and a status symbol for Cupcake Queens?

It's the pony in the classroom. By now, we're all used to the pony so no one wants to take it away because all the kids will cry. But really - it has nothing to do with fairness. It's about appropriateness.

How in the world did they learn anything in Little House on the Prairie-type schools? There was no white flour and sugar!

booandbrimom

yeah, my kids tell me occasionally --- sometimes it's good to have FA --- usually this is when a treat is served that they don't like, or the other kids want what my kids are having!

My son's allergic to peas!

mommabridget

As Ryan ages, my methodologies on how I deal with food allergies have changed.  And he's always been an integral part of the decision-making process.  Much less in the younger years, but much more now.

So very true.  What we did in 1st grade is very different to what we do today. 

Last Monday we had our Christmas concert and a reception for the director (leaving for Iraq for a year).  Nothing safe for DS.  Not one thing.  We didn't stay long and we took DS out to eat (to a place of his choice) immediately after.  He & I would never have expected everything to be safe nor would we have wanted the food portion of the evening to be left off (because of him or not).  It is enjoyable for most. 

my3guys

And food free would be fabulous, but then I would miss out on the journey DS1 has had to figure out how to make things safe for him in class/life. 

Real life, school - it doesn't matter, these are skills he needs to live.

IMHO, we get plenty of opportunities to practice these skills outside of school.

True, but when you let your guard down for a minute that is when things go horribly wrong.  Better to keep your radar working 24/7 and not be lulled into a false complacency.

When I say "food-free" classrooms, I'm referring to the bday treats and the holiday treats and the food used as part of lessons, and the food used as rewards.  Our school does a few food events a year.  I *hope* it provides a little balance and takes some of the bitter taste out of those parent's mouths who really miss food.

Keep in mind they can learn food allergy survival skills every day at lunch and snack time.  There was the time in Kindergarten when some yogurt landed on ds' neck.  Then this year he leaned into someone's milk that had spilled.  We're fortunate he's not contact sensitive to dairy.  And then just yesterday a friend who frequently sits with him at the peanut free table sat down yesterday and realized he had peanut butter for lunch.  The boys worked it out together.  I still don't think our kids need to learn this lesson with every birthday, and every celebration the school can dream up.  They learn quickly how to deal with food situations, and again, the practice every day at snack and lunch.

Full disclosure here:  I played a very small part in the school's policy.  The school was more than willing on their own, and other parents chimed in too.  I have no idea what I would have done if the school gave me a problem with reducing the amount of food.  I'm not trying to push people to advocate one way or another, just giving our experience.

And Ryan's mom: we do some of the same things you mention.  I let ds skip school wide ice cream day and we do something special together.  He gets extra treats and toys on Halloween and things like that.  Look at that, we agree again.

Tabicat

I will take issue however with the parent of a food allergic child who brings food for everyone who is not all inclusive. Actually I'm for food free classrooms and expect parentsof allergic children topull that off when possible.

Sometimes though we find ourselves in a no win situationand just have to work to make the best of it as we are able. That or a expect a scorched earth policy to be the order of the day.
I don't have any respect for martyrs. It's a cop out.

And the fact some of us won't crucify a parent who would allow their own child to have not the exact same treat as the others doesn't mean we are moraly ethically reprobate in that regard either. I don't suppose my way to parent is the only appropriate way either.

I could get the hang of this touchscreen if it just moved faster.

See I'm about here.

I would LOVE both as a parent and a teacher to see all non food Birthdays and other celebrations for multiple reasons but I have to live and work in the realities of now, try my very best to make what food does occur as safe as possible I would much prefer that he get another treat than none when everyone else is eating. I don't see that him getting another treat is exclusion.

Edited to add:
I would LOVE for B-day parties to NOT occur at school.   
   

my3guys

Sorry one more thought....

YKW asked elsewhere if we try to make family events outside of our home safe for ds. Nope. I bring his food. I don't expect school wide events happening outside of the school day to be safe either. We either skip them or bring his own food.

I'm speaking solely about food consumed during the school day when my ds is in the care of his 1 teacher surrounded by a minimum of 19 other students. 

Tabicat

I know school is not the real world.  But at some point my kids are going to have learn the navigate the world themselves.  For us, it's a life or death situation.  This isn't "Oops, I missed curfew" or "Gee no one told me I would have to pay off the credit card".

It's a part of who they are - whether they like it or not.

Do they offer driver's ed to those who need specialized cars in school - ours never did.  Do those kids still need lessons in driving, sure?

What are they going to do for work?  When they have lunch meetings or conferences?  Only a few of us are in a position to change those.  Yes, I understand someone with inhalation allergies to seafood won't be hitting Red Lobster, but there are other options out there.  You figure out a way to cater it safely.

What about social events?  Do I want my child to miss out on prom because a meal is involved?  No, I want him to know there are ways to navigate around it.  Okay, going to Subway isn't the best option out there for him but there are plenty of other options on the table.

Again, it's what having mfa's have made me wrap my head around.  Yeah it's great for those who have rules in place for prepared foods only (can only think on one hand those that are safe for one child that most children would enjoy).  And food free would be fabulous, but then I would miss out on the journey DS1 has had to figure out how to make things safe for him in class/life. 

Real life, school - it doesn't matter, these are skills he needs to live.

I get you. We learn more skills for the real world at school than, reading and writing. There is alot of talk about whether school is the real world. Well I see it as this.
It is the transition between our protected home life and the real world. I think it was Rachel that wrote about the safety net.

In my view there have to be rules that provide that safety net but not to the point that there is no need to develop survival skills. I am not strictly speaking about food allergy here either but the broader picture of special needs.       

Tabicat

Wow!  This post has given me so much to think about . . .

I fought for my 4 y.o. to have a separate allergen-free table.  She has MLTFA and has a history of severe reactions to very tiny amounts.  I was terrified she would accidentally ingest a crumb of another student's lunch and end up in anaphylaxis.  She also has asthma, so I am even more concerned about preventing accidental ingestion of her allergens.  Some folks here are saying they regret the separate tables.  But I'm curious how they handled the safety aspect then?  I just don't know how else to keep her safe. 

While lunch is simply part of my DD's program, serving cr*p (cupcakes, candy, cookies, etc.) seems very irresponsible from a PUBLIC HEALTH PERSPECTIVE.  The U.S. has a childhood obesity epidemic.  Children are getting obesity-related conditions/illnesses, previously a rarity in children, in droves.  What about augmenting the food exclusion efforts by thumping-on-the-public=health-handbook about how irresponsible it is for the schools to contribute to this epidemic?  I understand some districts are increasingly banning cupcakes, etc., based on the childhood obesity epidemic.  From my experience, walking in with handouts from the CDC, armed with statistics, etc., as opposed to simply reciting hte difficulty of childhood obesity is more effective. 

Tracking back to earlier thoughts, hopechapel raised a very good issue, I thought.  How many of these conversations about food allergies occur in front of our children and what is the impact on them?  My DD is very concerned about her food allergies.  She shoves labels in my face and demands that I read them.

The Childhood Obesity lead to significant restrictions here in Texas. I was teaching at the time and you would have thought they told us to starve the kids but people have settled down now though I see a lot of loopholes. I think over time it will lead to even greater restriction. For now I do what I can with what I have.   

Momcat

And food free would be fabulous, but then I would miss out on the journey DS1 has had to figure out how to make things safe for him in class/life. 

Real life, school - it doesn't matter, these are skills he needs to live.

IMHO, we get plenty of opportunities to practice these skills outside of school.

True, but when you let your guard down for a minute that is when things go horribly wrong.  Better to keep your radar working 24/7 and not be lulled into a false complacency.

I don't think that being in a safe school environment leads to complacency (false or otherwise).  We mitigate hazards in school all the time... is that making all the kids complacent?  Kids with LTMFA deserve no less safety than anyone else.

Stinky6

dont have to time to catch up...just read the last page and wanted to mention that two bldgs that I frequent....for a large well known company - have signs on them forbidding allergens.....one is a Latex warning.....and one is for all strong perfumes/scents

Arkadia

I will take issue however with the parent of a food allergic child who brings food for everyone who is not all inclusive. Actually I'm for food free classrooms and expect parents of allergic children to pull that off when possible.

Sometimes though we find ourselves in a no win situation and just have to work to make the best of it as we are able. That or a expect a scorched earth policy to be the order of the day.

I re-read the other thread.  To clarify, are you saying that a scorched earth policy is no food at all?  That food-free classrooms are just one aspect--  that if one argues for food-free classrooms then one may receive a no-food-anywhere response? 

do you remember the other Unrambling thread at the other allergy site?  You'd have to read that too.  It's a big picture thing. You know, when you look at several years and the tug of war back and forth. 

I had an epiphany during it. Sometimes, in the middle of this, you wonder if it's just you. If you're short a few stiches in the seams.

I know I'm not. Because really, if you read those exchanges between the school, myself, the super, the hotlunch queens, you begin to understand just what is at stake, and my dear Gail, I sincerely doubt the mental stability of anyone willing to pull out the last drop of good will supporting their children, their special needs children, in the school community.

Yes, I believe in that "working with" type of way.  That we don't hold each other over the pyre built with the scorecard otherwise known as "the letter of the law". When we politely, and without implying indebtedness to us, cut people a break. Because WE ALL need to be cut a break now and then.  To say we never do is an outright lie.

Over the years, I have come to believe strictly unwaivering literal interpretation of each and ever stanza of our lives is a flaw.

That it is infantile, and lacking a dimension. That it's use is limited to the confines of cold and indifferent statistical analysis and of little use were flesh and bone prevail.

Sure.  Food free classroom, but believe you me, there will be exceptions.

there's a flaming hot cheetos experiment in my son's science class this week. It's going to be ignited. The kids are very excited about it, and truthfully, I think it's a very effective, and creative way to demonstrate thermal energy to a bunch of snack freak eigth graders. <shrug>  Nothing "lazy" at all about it. That's just infammatory non-constructive language, if you ask me.

I've encountered enough people who unjustly cop attitudes with our staff and who malign healthcare professionals and I can say with confidence that most of them are either grossly under/mis-informed or just gnarly people who like to be handled with kid gloves.

Pretentious people who want people walking on eggshells around them, and let me tell you, nitpicking staff demoralizes them an undoubtedly puts a wall up that lowers the quality of care patient's recieve. It's not a conscious decision, it's just what happens when you have to overcome that type of attitude.

I'm not saying that's the case here, I just want OP's to know what feelings slinging around such cliche' language invokes in other service oriented professions.   



Anyways, the cheetos. I'm okay with it, despite an edict in the IEP that calls for "food free" classrooms, and as far as I can tell there are no other parents who have an issue with it. And if they do, they haven't bitched loud enough I know who they are. And believe me, people KNEW who I was.

But I digress.

Earlier in the year, a science class used gummy bears, and I've told them before there are no safe gummies, so I think that's why they are using Cheetos. <shrug>

End page 11!

[ajasfolks2]

Begin page 12, original thread

lakeswimr

We have a food-free classroom but parties still happen in the cafeteria so depending on your perspective it may or may not 'remove the issue'. I absolutely recommend trying for a food free classroom if possible. Our school seems to like it because it is easier for everyone. No worrying about cleaning desks and tables after snack or worrying that a scissors got x-contamed, etc. No label reading. no safe snack lists. Less room for mistakes. But there are still parties. Thankfully this year not so many. Only one so far. Last year we had a TON of food events but no allergens in the classroom.

Arkadia

AMEN TO THAT!


Our kids deserve the same safety as other children are afforded.


It's the LAW.


Not up for discussion.


And enforcable. 

sure, if you are, as I said, ready to pull out every stop and iota of good will people would hold towards your family, your children.

I repeat, it was agreed upon during MEDIATION HEARINGS held under the auspices of A JUDGE affiliated with the Illinois State Board of Education the <airquotes> junk food "Hot Lunch" program <biting tongue> would be modified. All the same, the administration later with the agreement on the table (literally) REFUSED to honor it. When I pulled out the Due Process Papers the answer was the same.

Scorched effing earth.

Not willing to do it, because I am a SANE person. Not only will I not watch Rome burn, I won't put the torch to it either.

Arkadia

We have a food-free classroom but parties still happen in the cafeteria so depending on your perspective it may or may not 'remove the issue'.  I absolutely recommend trying for a food free classroom if possible.  Our school seems to like it because it is easier for everyone.  No worrying about cleaning desks and tables after snack or worrying that a scissors got x-contamed, etc.  No label reading.  no safe snack lists.  Less room for mistakes.  But there are still parties.  Thankfully this year not so many.  Only one so far.  Last year we had a TON of food events but no allergens in the classroom. 

And I bet you have a "Wellness Policy" too.

OOOO.  Remembering the third grade teacher who circumvented the OHI portion of our IEP by holding an impromptu birthday party upon her solitary command decision in the cafeteria while my son sat at the coat table alone.

This on a day I was funding and bringing in a Pizza Party and Ice cream buffet.

Her exact words to me?:

"I'd do it again."

I did have an incident report formally drafted and placed on her employee record documenting the violation. Not exactly scorched earth, but right there on the threshold.

Arkadia

"Say the parent chooses exclusion and discrimination for their child?"

Isn't that essentially what a Peanut Free Table is? Most of them, at least.

"Or because this is within a school building, should the parents' decisions regarding the management of their child's FAs be overridden by the school's legal obligation to provide FAPE?"

Being able to honor both the instincts of a family and the obligations of public education would seem to me more a "FAPE" than usual.

Hey, are you doing consulting work or what? 

Anyways....remember that checklist we discussed years back related to proper inservicing of staff in the use of an Epi-pen by the school nurse? Or the one related to who has formally read and IEP/504 and  understands/has had an opportunity to have questions answered/knows who is the coordinator/formal "go-go" person?

Well, if someone is going to "waive their rights", I'd suppose there would need to be official documentation in place that not only formalizes that, but documents the absence of any instances that would exclude the parents' ability to waive that right for their child or at least warrant further investigation before proceeding to waive those rights.

And a time period where such would be reviewed.  Maybe during grading periods. Maybe something similiar to "Domains".  As long as those criteria are being met.....everything is copacetic. No need to investigate.
This isn't advice, it's just a perspective. 

?

(size added)

Gail? (I figured since I've answered your questions as best as I am able, you might indulge me and answer a few of my own.) 

Arkadia

AMEN TO THAT!


Our kids deserve the same safety as other children are afforded.



It's the LAW.



Not up for discussion.



And enforcable. 

sure, if you are, as I said, ready to pull out every stop and iota of good will people would hold towards your family, your children.

I repeat, it was agreed upon during MEDIATION HEARINGS held under the auspices of A JUDGE affiliated with the Illinois State Board of Education the <airquotes> junk food "Hot Lunch" program <biting tongue> would be modified. All the same, the administration later with the agreement on the table (literally) REFUSED to honor it. When I pulled out the Due Process Papers the answer was the same.

Scorched effing earth.

Not willing to do it, because I am a SANE person. Not only will I not watch Rome burn, I won't put the torch to it either.

Ark, our situation was different. Different schools/different folks/different interpretations of the law and MORALITY.

I didn't have folks with many morals to start with....didn't give any love up.

They came out in the first meeting with face mask, blow torch and boxing gloves....the next meeting I got smart and wore a fire proof suit.

Oh, hell, you should listen to the tapes of our first 504 meeting. They brought their lawyer. Lawfirm. The largest, most powerful education law firm for school districts in Chicago. Oh, and maybe Gail remembers how that went. She was around the time I was posting.

Arkadia

Glad you had a successful outcome.

Not everyone does.

After several months of jaw dropping encounters, I withdrew my son and homeschooled him for TWO years. What makes you think it was a cakewalk? What makes you think you're living some exclusive set of circumstances?

Arkadia

We got the Royal Weenie.

Hotdog especi'ale.[/quote


Arkadia

Glad you had a successful outcome.

Not everyone does.

After several months of jaw dropping encounters, I withdrew my son and homeschooled him for TWO years. What makes you think it was a cakewalk? What makes you think you're living some exclusive set of circumstances?

I don't think I'm exclusive. That's why I want change in the IDEA and 504 law that will help everyone.

I know that you have too suffered, but from your posts sometimes I get the impression that if others weren't successful or did what you did, we didn't do it right.

You need to get the impression that I'm saying most all of us has encountered some brand of unwelcome at the educational level at one point or another. It's not just you.

Speaking of, I always get the impression you think you've been mishandled in such extraordiary ways, moreso than anyone else in this regard.

<shrug>

My point is that no matter what you DO, is that it will depend on your individual OCR, school, and due process judges.

SYSTEM IS FLAWED.

egads, you could say the same thing about divorce. Criminal trials. What constitutes a legal adult. That's not just 504, that's law in general.

Arkadia

We got the Royal Weenie.

Hotdog especi'ale.

Why is your weenie any more royal than the one anyone else  on this board was delivered?

I never said any such thing. Good grief. Read it again. It didn't even hint of it. I was just saying we got jammed like so many others did. It's you who sounds to me like you state your situation is some thing above and beyond anyone elses and implies it so overwhelmingly so.  That if anyone accomplishes something, it's because it wasn't as rotten a situation as your own.  Not just when addressing me, either. You might want to realize that.

Arkadia

Hell, I admit the outcome wasn't even close to successful in 504/IEP terms. Except that I'm really glad we homeschooled him those two years.

momma2boys

Whew, just finished reading this entire thread! Really got me thinking.

My first thought, something I have grappled with for years. I even started a thread, I believe on the old board.  What legal right does the school have to feed any child any food other than the school lunch or breakfast?  Where did I agree that they could fill my child full of crap once a week or once a day?  Ugh.  This really infuriates me.  There are many parents that don't allow their kids to have junk food all the time.  They don't approve of their child getting candy everytime they answer a question correctly or turn in their homework!  What if my child is starting to gain weight and we are watching what he eats?  What gives them the right to give him cupcakes and candy?  And who said it is ok to give kids something that Joey's mom made in her kitchen that could be a pit of squalor?  Who is going to be liable when a kid gets food poisoning or has their first allergic reaction or worse?

My school system has tried to do right by us and I don't have a lot of complaints.  They have from day one paid for a one on one aide for him.  I have worked with them to come up with a plan and they have always accomodated me.  But this year, talking to his aide, and reading this thread, i'm having some regrets.  I tried to make it easy on them, while making it hard on myself.

We started with a safe treat box.  Then he got a teacher that insisted on giving crap every single day.  There were days that I would drop him off and have to rush home to bake a pan of brownies and rush one back for him.  There were times I had to bake crap for the whole class because it was that or have her make it and he was excluded. 

This is the teacher who left him behind with his aide and took all the other kids on a walking field trip and lied to the principal and told her I said it was ok.  Should've filed a complaint but it was the last week he would ever be in her class.

I've walked in on my ds's first day of school and saw him eating alone.  Just this year, in seventh grade he sat alone the first couple days because they insisted on a peanut free table.  NEVER again!

I think it is one thing if you feel being excluded doesn't bother your child, but does it not bother them because they are so used to it?  To me, that is just wrong.  I can't tell you how many times it has broken my heart to see my child excluded.  I hate it.  And he rolls with the punches and doesn't complain and that just makes me feel worse.     

I've talked to his aide and she is concerned that while the staff is being trained how to use the epi, they are not being trained in any way about managing the allergy or recognizing symptoms, etc.

I posted a couple weeks ago about Sen. Schumer introducing an allergy act.  I would like to write him a letter explaining our situation and what this act should include.  I am not good at this at all, so if anyone is willing to help me I would appreciate it.  I will start a new thread if anyone has any ideas they can post them.

momma2boys

Oh and as far as the original post, way to tell the whole class that it is ok to exclude the kid because he basically needs to suck it up and deal with it    .  I'm sure that made him feel wonderful.   

Stinky6

we burned a cheerio in 8th grade.....
I think it was to show calories

Gail

"Say the parent chooses exclusion and discrimination for their child?"

Isn't that essentially what a Peanut Free Table is? Most of them, at least.

"Or because this is within a school building, should the parents' decisions regarding the management of their child's FAs be overridden by the school's legal obligation to provide FAPE?"

Being able to honor both the instincts of a family and the obligations of public education would seem to me more a "FAPE" than usual.

Hey, are you doing consulting work or what? 

I have continued to try to help individual families.  Currently I am involved with two families, and am involved with a couple organizations and school district committees.  My role is as a parent, but I suppose that is a 'consultant'.   

Anyways....remember that checklist we discussed years back related to proper inservicing of staff in the use of an Epi-pen by the school nurse? Or the one related to who has formally read and IEP/504 and  understands/has had an opportunity to have questions answered/knows who is the coordinator/formal "go-go" person?

Well, if someone is going to "waive their rights", I'd suppose there would need to be official documentation in place that not only formalizes that, but documents the absence of any instances that would exclude the parents' ability to waive that right for their child or at least warrant further investigation before proceeding to waive those rights.

And a time period where such would be reviewed.  Maybe during grading periods. Maybe something similiar to "Domains".  As long as those criteria are being met.....everything is copacetic. No need to investigate.
This isn't advice, it's just a perspective. 

?

(size added)

Gail? (I figured since I've answered your questions as best as I am able, you might indulge me and answer a few of my own.) 

I think such a waiver form is a splendid idea. 

momma2boys

I told my ds about the original post and his response was "That's just mean! What a jerk!!"

End page 12!

[ajasfolks2]

Original thread, begin page 13


Arkadia

Hell, I admit the outcome wasn't even close to successful in 504/IEP terms. Except that I'm really glad we homeschooled him those two years.

We have something in common and that we agree. Homeschooling rocks. 

I'm really glad we homeschooled him because it totally made the case in so many ways regarding eligibility.  (As would withholding attendance in my younger son's instance for non-food related needs).

That's not advice, that's just how it worked out for us.  Money... mouth...bulls-eye. It was necessary in order to meet his future needs.

But after two years, it was crystal clear, this child was far too precious to keep sequestered. (His brother was only out for three months)

I felt like a thief. Especially since the key staff that had acted so unethically had been relocated by then.  Tenure or not.   

He's blossomed, and as a matter of fact, the holiday band concert was tonight. I need an sd card adapter to transfer the files to photobucket, but when I do, I will share. Let me tell you, I have no regrets. School may be an artificial environment, but let me tell you, it's so splendid in so many ways. God bless artificial.

Aside from my mother and a few of her scattered relatives, it's the only extended "family" my children have. It's one thing to have a solid extended social network outside of school and decide to homeschool your child, but a whole new brand of injury to do it in the absence of one. Nearly criminal, imho.

Even tonight, the band instructor had to tell me how darling he's been on tour. How he "palmed" each tympani drum to unload them from the van as one of the girls was struggling with them:

"Step aside, I'll have that." 

I mean, tell me you're not smiling!

Oh, he came home, went up to his room, stripped off his tuxedo, came down in his lounge shorts and a t-shirt and said with a grin and a well deserved sigh: 

"Engaging bum-mode."



Spoken as only Steven's naturally charismatic personality can. It's his most outstanding gift. His brother is similarly blessed but with a bit of an edge. 

The only reason people know and remember me is because they know my children. Complete strangers:  "You, you're Anthony's mother, aren't you!  He is such a special young boy....the ideas he comes up with! I've just got to tell you what he did/said..."

That or because I was a three year threat to the "Hot Lunch" program. 


Keeping him/them from that artificial venue called "public education" would be a crime sin.

Especially now, especially in the most carefree years of his/their youth.

Speaking of, I think this Sunday, we'll visit the church community that meets at the highschool for services. I've got a good feeling about it. There are so many outstanding young adults in our school systemand they are active in that church. That's good sign.

Arkadia

I've walked in on my ds's first day of school and saw him eating alone.  Just this year, in seventh grade he sat alone the first couple days because they insisted on a peanut free table.  NEVER again!

QFT.  I've never approved a _____-free table for my son. No advice, and just related to my son, but my thoughts on it are peanuts/nut products are so ubiquitous in our cafeteria environment, an aerosol sensitivity isn't served any better sitting x number of feet at a separate table than it is with a cleaning procdure/buffer zone, self imposed or not at the regular table. It's not like there are certified lunch inspectors at any "peanut free" table either. 

If it's cross contamination, it's not like there is decon from cafeteria to general school environement either.  Clothing, books, hands, you name it.  Risk. Benefit. A ______-free table isn't doing it for me.

I mean, what's worse?  A wince from a treat that's not product manual identical to the one 24 other students in a class get, or the stark visual and isolation sitting apart from 400 some other students at forgive me, the leper table? And that, folks is exactly how I feel about them.  If that's the table someone wants for their child, more power to them, but I wouldn't even dream of placing my child there.

Ryansmom

There's a fine line between inclusion and exclusion

Schools are more than just the 3 R's.  It's a social environment.  An environment in which kids attempt to learn social skills, adaptive skills, and many other skills other than Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic so to speak.

Take that PF table for instance.  MB never approved it for her son.  I did, but only at the elementary school.  We worked it so the PA kids would pick two kids to sit with them at lunch.  It was viewed as a "privilege" by other kids.  Not so much in the Intermediate school.  Ryan was alone for the first fiew days.  New modification:  He would sit with his class row at lunch.  The last table on the end was for all kids who didn't have obvious peanut products in their lunch whether it be school or home.  Now it has further evolved into the kids sitting next to him can't have peanuts in their lunches.  He still sits far from the serving line and garbage cans.

Point is, at one point the PF table was "medically safe inclusion".  Then it became "socially isolated exlusion". 

Then there's the PF classroom or food-free classroom issue.  I gave the ultimatum to our school district that would be either/or.  We'd work it to their choice. They choose PF classroom.  I told them I didn't want to do away with traditions.  They are very important to kids.  (Birthdays, parties, holidays).  If we went with the PF classroom, however, we would make it very restrictive with numerous checks.  We did.  The administrators had backbones.  The teachers enforced the 504.  I had a heavy hand in this. 

If I had pushed for ONLY a food-free classroom, I'm sure there would have been much resentment for my son, as in "He's the kid who caused this "problem"."  The school knew it, and I knew it.  Does Ryan have the right to a safe environment at school?  Is he entitled to accommodations?  Heck yes!  But at what cost?  Just as MB strives for balance, so did I.  A balance of health, safety, social, psychological, and emotional wellness in school in addition to the regular academic curriculum. 

This was SO important to me.  It was obtaining a balance between inclusion and exclusion.  It brings me back to a conversation I had with Ryan two months ago.  The Gifted teacher does small lunch groups in her room.  Kids can opt out of them though.  This year was the first year Ryan opted out because he didn't particularly care for his lunch group and wanted to eat with his friends in the cafeteria.  One point he brought which really made me think about inclusion and exclusion as well as compassion and empathy.  There's a kid in Ryan's class who is academically Gifted but also has Asperger's.  He has a full-time aide during the day.  I know this child drives Ryan up the wall.  I try to tell Ryan that we all have our crosses to bear.  Try to work with him, not against him.  He tries, but he drew the line at lunch groups.  For as easygoing as he is, it would drive Ryan insane to eat in lunch groups with this child for the rest of the school year.  He needs time away.  Ryan really tries to do the right thing in the regular classroom setting, but he needs a break from this child at lunch.  I'm fairly certain other kids opted out as well.  So while this child who has Asperger's is experiencing an inclusionary education, it can also be exclusionary as well.  Just like our food-allergic kids.  Kids may have to put up with restrictions in the classroom, but lunch may be their break away time, thus the PF table becomes "exclusionary". 

There is a fine line between the rights of our child under the law and balancing inclusion/exclusion at the same time.  Every child is different.  What's right for one may not be right for another.  We're trying to create a perfect world for our child in, at times, a less-than-perfect environment.

notnutty

Wow...I missed a lot over the past 2 days.  Very good thread.  Can't wait to read the whole thing.


There are no hard rules when it comes to managing LTFA.

Just yesterday, I agreed, despite my DS's 504 plan that calls for safe and inclusive holiday parties, to bring in a safe treat for him next week.

Why?  Because his teacher generally works very hard to make things safe and inclusive for him.  She messed up and ordered ice cream cups that she thought were safe.

I explained the situation to my DS and he said he didn't care.

My relationship with my DS's teacher is a give and take, as long as the big things are not missed and she genuinely cares and makes an effort.

<shrug>...I am okay with it on occasion and so is my DS.

He knows he is an important part of the classroom and that is what matters. 

YouKnowWho

Where was the pity?

Was it with the sub who felt pity because the child had to have something different?

Or was it with the child who felt bad that he had to have something different?

Other kids are jealous of DS's treats. I have to watch him because he can gloat over it. But it also helps contribute to his comfort when it comes to having a safe yet different treat.

Do I wish daily we could afford to live one school over, sure. They discourage food at all levels, limit parties to include all kids (read no food) and get food allergies. Problem being that the average house price over there is 3x what our house costs. Instead I have to make due with the school that has corporate food sponsors like a local pizza chain that uses peanut oil, Chickfila, Five Guys and Sweet Tomatoes. Not to mention shared snacks at the kindergarten level, leaving DS out daily. They are not ammenable to changing this program. It's a team building activity. That's not to say I won't fight it. But it's a reality that I have to get him ready for. He can either feel pity for himself which leads him open to take chances OR he can be entirely comfortable that he is different for a reason.

Arkadia

Wow...I missed a lot over the past 2 days.  Very good thread.  Can't wait to read the whole thing.

There are no hard rules when it comes to managing LTFA.

Just yesterday, I agreed, despite my DS's 504 plan that calls for safe and inclusive holiday parties, to bring in a safe treat for him next week.

Why?  Because his teacher generally works very hard to make things safe and inclusive for him.  She messed up and ordered ice cream cups that she thought were safe.

I explained the situation to my DS and he said he didn't care.

My relationship with my DS's teacher is a give and take, as long as the big things are not missed and she genuinely cares and makes an effort.

<shrug>...I am okay with it on occasion and so is my DS.


He knows he is an important part of the classroom and that is what matters. 

this.

McCobbre

Sorry one more thought....

YKW asked elsewhere if we try to make family events outside of our home safe for ds. Nope. I bring his food.  I don't expect school wide events happening outside of the school day to be safe either.  We either skip them or bring his own food.

I'm speaking solely about food consumed during the school day when my ds is in the care of his 1 teacher surrounded by a minimum of 19 other students.

THis has been our policy, but there are times when it can be inclusive. When it's easy to be.  DS' home room class brought the most cans in for the canned food drive, and the Student Council gave them a breakfast.: donuts.  Food was reward.  Okay--whatever, but it can easily be safe for him him to have the same thing.  The teacher called me and said, "But we don't have a Krispy Kreme store here." I replied, "They're at every Kroger.  It's not hard to get them, and I'll donate $20 to the SC for any differnce in cost."  The SC was also providing sausage biscuits for the class, adn the teacher wondered about those (he had called the restaurant).  I said not to worry about those--can't imagine they'd cause harm, and DS won't eat them anyway because he's a vegetarian."

A teacher is providing another food reward this week, and I coordinated with her to get safe stuff (there's a child allergic to egg in the class, too, but eats baked egg). Since it's not necessary, I'm happy to find something that's all inclusive.  It's meant as a reward, and when DS has been a critical part of making that reward possible for his class, you betcha it should be inclusive if it's not hard to do.

Oh--another food as reward thing for AR points. They were having a party with food where they were also using a lot of athletic equipment.  They asked parents to bring granola bars and Chex Snack Mix.  I did put a kabash on that, because eating then playing with the equipment like that would render it unsafe.  I made a few other suggestions, knew they'd have a few safe items for DS, and also sent DS with something.  Again--it's not hard not to have granola bars and chex Mix.

Yes it's middle school.  And yes I'm being flexible.  There is to be no food consumed in DS' classroom per his 504.  I'm fine with using safe food as a learning opportunity (DNA made out of twizzlers and gum drops, tootsie roll experiments).  That breakfast was eaten in DS' homeroom classroom, and I am not shouting "504 VIOLATION" at the school.

For Show Choir, after school, the teachers pass out candy.  Every.time.  DS just doesn't take any, but the teachers have asked about safe stuff.  After Xmas I'll give them a list I think.  And this is because in teh bigger arena, they have done a HUGE thing:  make all future concession stands at theatre events PF.  Since people eat in a theatre no matter what the rules are and since  DS will be in this program for the next three years, this is huge to me.

Notnutty and Ryansmom are right. It's a relationship of give and take.

BTW---Sunday night there was a reception at church after a choir thing in which DS sung.  I took his own plate.  Three types of cookies, two types of cheese.  The church is PF to make it a safer environment for him, but we take his food. 

Mezzo

What legal right does the school have to feed any child any food other than the school lunch or breakfast?

Amen.  This is what my DH has been saying since our oldest without FAs started school.  Why do they have the right to feed them anything in the classroom?

Mezzo

I just read the first post, and that makes me sad.  We're talking about a little kid here, and the teacher just comes out and says he'll have to get used to it?  Instead of "Class, I want you all to understand why it's better if you don't bring food for birthday treats."  Little kids tend to listen to their teacher and feel compassion for their classmates.  She could shape their attitudes.  Well, I'm sure she is. 

my3guys

NoNuts4Me:  I briefly was in the world of complete non-cooperation and stonewalling.  I thankfully hooked up with another member here who had the same SD attorney and was much further in the process so we could share stories.  I hired an advocate before my ds even started school because the Principal and nurse and superintendent were pulling all kinds of bait and switch and not honoring written policies.  Upon reviewing the whole situation with my advocate, and looking at our unique family situation at the time, I dropped the battle and enrolled my ds in a private Catholic school. 

When you're up against school districts like this, it's incredibly difficult.

But I think Arkadia and Ryan's Mom, and McCobbre are saying that if you have a decent framework policy with the school, it's a good idea to be as flexible as possible within reason.  It makes people continue to want to work with you.  Hence why I agreed to the Thanksgiving Feast. 

The other allergy mom created a huge uproar over the feast and nixed another event for moms only doing prep for a Christmas fundraiser at someone's home (which is done every year) because the homeowner had a dog and she was concerned with children who have dog allergies consuming wrapped candy handled in a dog owner's home.  She became the joke among 4 grades of mothers because of how she handled herself.

There's only so much good will to go around with people.

And I think Arkadi'a example also shows that even with the law on your side, schools still can get around things at times.  It doesn't seem as black and white as we would like it to be.

More . . .

[ajasfolks2]

Page 13, continued

Arkadia

Medical management of a food allergy includes social and emotional care (inclusion) and that is definitely individual.

Please remember that not everyone has had success with trying these techniques and that no one has the right answer. I, along with several parents, have tried almost everything listed in this thread.

IT DIDN'T WORK. THAT IS WHY WE NEED LAW....and enforcement of the law.

Please remember (speaking to several posters) that not everyone has schools that are willing to work with you. Some schools are terrified of 504's and will do anything to rid you, some schools train their teachers to do nothing cooperatively, some have passive aggressive teachers that will not help because the admin has turned them against you from the get go, some have school attorneys misguided on the law.

this is what I'm talking about.  That ginormous chip on your shoulder. This isn't even directed at you. (edit to add:  referring to the quote) It's neutral. It's not a commentary on your feelings about how you managed your own child's situation. Instead, it's a fact. It's a neutral statement. A noun. Not an adverb.

Truthfully?  I can't help but think you might have some regrets.  Know this:  We ALL do. You can't go through navigating an entire school community on behalf of your child, in a situation where you are asking others to extend themselves in a way, most will NEVER understand the rationale for and not have regrets. At some point, something is going to come unhinged. Maybe ten times over.

It happens.  <shrug>

And you just might experience some degree of momentary hate for the people who were involved in that.

The hardest part is turning that around. But really?  those unhinged moments are an indicator.  It usually means you need to step back and try a different appoach. For me? It was letting go of perfectionism. Whether in the written details of the IEP or cheetos in the science lab.

Trying a different approach.....you can confront people with the idea you're on some moral ethical highground they aren't or aren't capable of, but really, don't expect to garner much support with that. If you've already declared them to be inferior ethically and morally either in action or word, don't expect them to buddy up with you in a common endevor.  That's just human nature.

I mean, I wouldn't expect them to jump on board after that and attempt to prove themselves to you. Anyone at the corporate level (and that's just what you are as a parent advocate) knows the key to drawing out the best in people is to treat them as if they ARE competent.

Or at least quit telling them what a rotten job they are doing or telling them they never will be able to satisfy your demands.

And that's really hard after an unhinged moment. I know.  I've been there. I've had do a 180 before. And it probably won't be the last time either. It waxes and wanes.  Expect that. That's life.  You're going to have days you love these people, and then not so much. But that's people. That's imperfection. That's everyone. That's marriage. LOL.  It's not just LTFA. 

All the parents I know that have tried to work with schools and failed are GOOD people, "normal", and worked hard to make accomodations for the school's ignorance and lack of empathy.

See....you think you're a failure (reading along here for the first time) And really, when we think that of ourselves, we instinctively try to find out why.  We look for a place to put the blame, and we'll even attempt to define why that blame belongs there:  "ignorance, lack of empathy"

But do we really believe it?  I mean, "school's".  Is that everyone?  Specific names? The janitor? The super?  "School's" is so broad....vague. It's easier to think the worst of someone when they don't even have a title.

I am thrilled that some get it to work, just don't forget the others that are still facing brick walls. 

egads.  perfect wording <still reading>.

You're going to have to turn this around.  Do that 180.  You'll never get over feeling like a failure unless you do. (and really, that's the vibe I'm constantly getting from you)  Hinge back up. Consider what I've said. You can make this work, and you really sound like you regret not doing so, with your back to it.

My two cents.  I promise, we'll be here to cheer you on (banning an all-out hyperboards black hole). 

more . . .

[ajasfolks2]

Page 13, continued


ajasfolks2

Whew, just finished reading this entire thread! Really got me thinking.

My first thought, something I have grappled with for years. I even started a thread, I believe on the old board.  What legal right does the school have to feed any child any food other than the school lunch or breakfast?  Where did I agree that they could fill my child full of crap once a week or once a day?  Ugh.  This really infuriates me.  There are many parents that don't allow their kids to have junk food all the time.  They don't approve of their child getting candy everytime they answer a question correctly or turn in their homework!  What if my child is starting to gain weight and we are watching what he eats?  What gives them the right to give him cupcakes and candy?  And who said it is ok to give kids something that Joey's mom made in her kitchen that could be a pit of squalor?  Who is going to be liable when a kid gets food poisoning or has their first allergic reaction or worse?

The school system and staff who participate and the food-providing parents have presumed they have this food-shoving as a right.

They presume that because you've (ETA "WE") sent your (ETA "OUR") children to them, they can do what they damn-well please.

Unless and until something happens:

1.  A child DIES in their care due to the food.
2.  A parent makes formal complaint about the food violating their religious civil rights.
3.  A MASS of parents stand up and cry foul as to the mistreatment of ALL the children and the violation of their RIGHT TO GOOD HEALTH.
4.  The citizens of this country wake up and realize how their lives of excess (to include food) are killing them -- physically and emotionally.



Some links here:

Random thought about Food in Schools (Off Topic)
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=2693&start=1


Why do schools need to feed any child?
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=5359&start=1

Does it take a SIGN on the child?
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=7848&start=1

"DO NOT FEED THIS CHILD!"
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=9254&start=1

INCLUSION
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=4484

Food as Rewards or Incentives
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=564

Letter Template for Classroom Birthdays
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=12091

Just thinking about this little boy and this situation and wishing I could do more to make his life better.  Why can't school administrators and teachers realize that what they are doing is wrong?  Why is it okay to exclude our children when it would be unheard of to do the same for other disabilities?

Because we allow it.  I say "we" as in the collective, eventhough there are some who will NOT allow it where they have some measure of control.

Everytime this blatant discrimination is allowed to be acceptable --  by just giving a pass or by any other varying degrees of "allowance" (up to and including the safe treats box) -- then it reinforces that this discrimination is JUST FINE.

The fact that the proposed LTFA legislation at federal level is to be "voluntary" gives it a pass as well. 

We HAVE the laws in place to protect and uphold the LTFA child's right to FULL INCLUSION in the ADA and Section 504 of Rehab Act.

OCR nationwide needs to step up and appropriately handle the complaints.

LTFA parents nationwide (worldwide) need to be strong enough to speak out and speak strongly.  Every time.

What does it teach our children that we would be accepting of discrimination against them in the public schools?

(Rosa Parks analogy.)  Why is it OK for the child to sometimes NOT be allowed "on the bus" so to speak?  And why is it acceptable for the child to be allowed to ride only in the least desireable seats on the bus, but still be allowed to "tag along"?


Thanks, notnutty, for posting this today.

This is National Inclusive Schools week:  except for those with LTFA or ______ (other protected group struggling with similar discrimination issues; fill in the blank).

Exclusion as a supposed means of INclusion is illegal and WRONG.



Keep asking WHY.

Keep working for positive change.

Refuse to give up the seat on the bus.



ETA -- Since we cannot seem to get FAAN to advocate in this manner, perhaps we should seek hlep elsewhere?  What abouut INclusive Schools org?
http://www.inclusiveschools.org/

my3guys

ETA -- Since we cannot seem to get FAAN to advocate in this manner, perhaps we should seek hlep elsewhere? What abouut INclusive Schools org?

I don't know. What about Food Allergy Initiative? fai.org

Gail

My first thought, something I have grappled with for years. I even started a thread, I believe on the old board.  What legal right does the school have to feed any child any food other than the school lunch or breakfast?  Where did I agree that they could fill my child full of crap once a week or once a day?  Ugh.  This really infuriates me. 

I remember your thread because it framed the question so well.  And since that post, I am often led to that question.  In essence, a parent gives 'consents' to their child's participation in the lunch option.  They are informed of the menu and make a decision based on that information.  So while a parent 'consents' to the food the school feeds their child in the cafeteria, a parent doesn't consent to other food that is fed to their child at school.  And I'm not talking in terms of special needs either.  Parents of non-special dietary needs kids are essentially giving their informed consent. 

I've walked in on my ds's first day of school and saw him eating alone.  Just this year, in seventh grade he sat alone the first couple days because they insisted on a peanut free table.  NEVER again!

I think it is one thing if you feel being excluded doesn't bother your child, but does it not bother them because they are so used to it?  To me, that is just wrong.  I can't tell you how many times it has broken my heart to see my child excluded.  I hate it.  And he rolls with the punches and doesn't complain and that just makes me feel worse.     

Gail:  "Say the parent chooses exclusion and discrimination for their child?"

Ark: "Isn't that essentially what a Peanut Free Table is? Most of them, at least."

Yep.  My school district required a letter from our allergist before they would "allow" Mariah to sit at the "regular table".  Unfortunately, she didn't roll with the punches and still, 7 years later, becomes either teary or angry about this particular topic.

ajasfolks2

More links, out of room in the above long post:

When did there get to be so much food in school?
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=6244&start=1

Food in Schools
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=9589&start=1


If that LAST one doesn't get people to see how
downright OBSCENE the use of food in schools has become, then         .

End page 13!

[Firebird]

TOPIC IS LOCKED UNTIL I HAVE FINISHED POSTING ALL 18 PAGES OF THE ORIGINAL THREAD INTO HERE.  I'm up through page   *13*   now. 

THANKS for yor patience~ ~e