College Related

[GingerPye]

Okay, Ginger-- one thing that you'll want to be VERY careful about is that the filtering that the system does is not inclusive of cross-contamination risks.

ONLY actual ingredients, and even that isn't foolproof-- for example, "Margarine and Mayonnaise" popped up as being 'fine' even after I filtered for results that didn't contain egg...

and "ice cream, vanilla" was included when I filtered for treenuts and peanuts.

Basically, what THEY thought was safe as breakfast fare was hot/cold cereal (which, okay-- MAYbe... though I know of quite a few items there that are UNSAFE in terms of PN/TNA), sausages, and fruit... but some of the listings rang alarm bells for me with my years of experience-- for example, cut-up fruit and sausages are both risks in a kitchen that uses eggs and treenut containing foods.

KWIM?

There are things there that the filters claim as "okay" but that the advice on the main page suggests are NOT okay due to cross-contamination avoidance advice.  So do be wary of anything that seems too good to be true. 

Let us know how it goes, too-- because this is definitely one of the better systems that I've seen in action-- provided that it works the way it is supposed to.  (That is, if dining staffers know to keep labels, etc. available and have been trained to recognize XC risks and answer questions.)

Yes, I noticed that something with cheese popped up in spite of filtering out milk.  I think I will let them know this -- that it is not fool-proof.  Which I suspect the director knows -- who I have been talking with on the phone and emailing.  She seems to be very on top of food allergies and seems to understand the risks and avoiding cross-contam.  She has done everything I've asked so far.  Waiting today for her to scan and email the labels of a few food items that are not on their website.

It just seems to me, what little I know about it, that if this is what college dining is like now, it has come a LONG way in a short time.  And I agree that improvement is still needed; I'm sure we'll see that when DD goes on this school trip.

But I'm going to trust her to double-check labels, etc before eating.  She expressed her worry last night, that even though all these things are in place, something won't be quite right.  Therefore, she will have some quickie micro meals with her if she feels that something is not safe, plus her bkfst items.  This will be her FIRST trip away from home without Mom and Dad!!  A good litmus test, I think, and hopefully a safe one.

(now going to read through the rest of the posts --- haven't read all yet)

[ajasfolks2]

CM,
The last part of your post had me thinking that this is really an area where FAAN and FAI could lead the way.  They should get on the forefront of developing a good practices guidelines for colleges and universities and then offer a searchable database to FAAN members looking at colleges of those schools who participate in the program.

(My bold added for emphasis)
The operative word here is "could" . . . FAAN has been so behind the ball for so long, IMHO.

[GingerPye]

Okay, Ginger-- one thing that you'll want to be VERY careful about is that the filtering that the system does is not inclusive of cross-contamination risks.

ONLY actual ingredients, and even that isn't foolproof-- for example, "Margarine and Mayonnaise" popped up as being 'fine' even after I filtered for results that didn't contain egg...

and "ice cream, vanilla" was included when I filtered for treenuts and peanuts.

Basically, what THEY thought was safe as breakfast fare was hot/cold cereal (which, okay-- MAYbe... though I know of quite a few items there that are UNSAFE in terms of PN/TNA), sausages, and fruit... but some of the listings rang alarm bells for me with my years of experience-- for example, cut-up fruit and sausages are both risks in a kitchen that uses eggs and treenut containing foods.

KWIM?

There are things there that the filters claim as "okay" but that the advice on the main page suggests are NOT okay due to cross-contamination avoidance advice.  So do be wary of anything that seems too good to be true. 

Let us know how it goes, too-- because this is definitely one of the better systems that I've seen in action-- provided that it works the way it is supposed to.  (That is, if dining staffers know to keep labels, etc. available and have been trained to recognize XC risks and answer questions.)

Having looked at dining services at several colleges now, I have to say that the scary thing is the colleges want to accomodate, think they can accomodate, but don`t get it.  Some of the things CM Deux pointed out are scary to me.  I cannot fathom letting dd eat vanilla ice cream (assuming she were not allergic to milk, referring only to the peanut issue) without my calling the manufacturer, and most likely it would be shared equipment with nuts.  We did find one school that does not serve any peanut or tree nut products other than a jar of pb out where the silverware is for the students.  So that school has no risk of nut cross contamination.  Unfortunately, that is not the school that is most academically compatible with dd.  The school that dd wants to go to told me that they could accomodate dd, but when I asked, they serve Thai food there, use peanut sauces, etc.  No way is she eating three meals a day in that dining hall.

And quoting maeve:
"Basically, depending on the school and its dining options, most dining halls are buffets/cafeterias and I don't let DD eat at one of those now, why would I expect her to be able to when she goes to college?"

I just can`t see how so many on this board with older kids have had their kids go safely off to college.  It seems like I am missing something.  Most of the ones I have checked don`t really understand cross contamination and how little it takes to have an epi/911 moment.

<bold mine>
I don't know yet either, but we are only a few years away from it ourselves.  But my guess is -- the FA kids who attend college currently and are eating at the dining halls --- aren't as sensitive, perhaps, as others?  Which is my guess with my kids.  The RAST shows my kids as >100/class 6 for peanut.  But my kids have not had one single peanut reaction.  Even after being around kids in the cafeteria eating PB all the time. 

Now CM's child or someone with similar sensitivity -- in that situation -- may very well have a reaction.  I probably wouldn't put CM's child in that situation, ever.   So, it follows then that eating at a college dining hall would not work for someone with such high sensitivity.   Am I right, CM? 

Someone mentioned having the labels available for DD to read.  I will double-check that today, that they will be available. 

And she can question the person who put together the meal.  I do know that it won't be other students putting the meal together.  A supervisor will be doing it, per the director of dining hall services.  And it will be made ahead of time and put away to be kept warm/cold.  So I feel good knowing that it won't be students, no matter how careful, putting together her meals.  Not that a supervisor would be much better --- but the director has given specific instructions to this supervisor wrt handling her food, preparing her food, keeping away from other foods, using clean utensils and cooking equipment, etc.  It is standard instruction at this school, apparently, to accomodate those students with special dietary needs. 

[YouKnowWho]

We just had a young man die here due to a cross-contaminated meal at a small-medium campus that was supposed to be aware of his milk allergies.  Combined with an epi-pen failure (needle bent) it was a series of events that led to his death.

I think the only way DS1 could be safe and eat a balanced diet at this point would be to have access to a kitchen of his own which might ultimately limit where he goes to school if we have to add in the cost of an apt as well.  Trying not to think that far in advance though.

[my3guys]

YKW -- Your post just sent chills through me. I have no idea about any of this...as college is 9 yrs. away. However, when I think about it in those brief moments, chills. Must repeat to myself "college is 9 yrs away, college is 9 yrs. away". Maybe he will have completely outgrown milk and/or be more tolerant with egg by then.

[YouKnowWho]

Initial story
http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/ksu-student-dies-on-1130047.html

http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/ksu-students-we-werent-1133780.html

[Arkadia]

Okay, Ginger-- one thing that you'll want to be VERY careful about is that the filtering that the system does is not inclusive of cross-contamination risks.

ONLY actual ingredients, and even that isn't foolproof-- for example, "Margarine and Mayonnaise" popped up as being 'fine' even after I filtered for results that didn't contain egg...

and "ice cream, vanilla" was included when I filtered for treenuts and peanuts.

Basically, what THEY thought was safe as breakfast fare was hot/cold cereal (which, okay-- MAYbe... though I know of quite a few items there that are UNSAFE in terms of PN/TNA), sausages, and fruit... but some of the listings rang alarm bells for me with my years of experience-- for example, cut-up fruit and sausages are both risks in a kitchen that uses eggs and treenut containing foods.

KWIM?

There are things there that the filters claim as "okay" but that the advice on the main page suggests are NOT okay due to cross-contamination avoidance advice.  So do be wary of anything that seems too good to be true. 

Let us know how it goes, too-- because this is definitely one of the better systems that I've seen in action-- provided that it works the way it is supposed to.  (That is, if dining staffers know to keep labels, etc. available and have been trained to recognize XC risks and answer questions.)

Having looked at dining services at several colleges now, I have to say that the scary thing is the colleges want to accomodate, think they can accomodate, but don`t get it.  Some of the things CM Deux pointed out are scary to me.  I cannot fathom letting dd eat vanilla ice cream (assuming she were not allergic to milk, referring only to the peanut issue) without my calling the manufacturer, and most likely it would be shared equipment with nuts.  We did find one school that does not serve any peanut or tree nut products other than a jar of pb out where the silverware is for the students.  So that school has no risk of nut cross contamination.  Unfortunately, that is not the school that is most academically compatible with dd.  The school that dd wants to go to told me that they could accomodate dd, but when I asked, they serve Thai food there, use peanut sauces, etc.  No way is she eating three meals a day in that dining hall.

And quoting maeve:
"Basically, depending on the school and its dining options, most dining halls are buffets/cafeterias and I don't let DD eat at one of those now, why would I expect her to be able to when she goes to college?"

I just can`t see how so many on this board with older kids have had their kids go safely off to college.  It seems like I am missing something.  Most of the ones I have checked don`t really understand cross contamination and how little it takes to have an epi/911 moment.

it's pretty simple. I'm not getting what the brouhaha is all about. I went away three years to ISU (Illinois State). Never ate one dorm meal (I don't have allergies, either), I lived in student housing the first two years with COMPLETE strangers. The third year, I got some smarts and an apartment on my own (still student housing). While I lived with three other roomates the first two years, we fixed all our own individual meals, I had a car, I shopped for my own food, and came home thursday afternoon to Chicago and returned on Monday morning. (I worked weekends and Friday night).

It's how they will live alone, on their own soon after, unless we plan on them living at home forever. (?)

FWIW, my parents were not very well off, I took student loans to pay for my education, they contributed, and I worked as a waitress. I double majored in the sciences. It wasn't particulary difficult to do, and even with two to three lab courses a semester, not particularly rigorous. Either you're college material or you're not. <shrug>


The biggest threat to your children on campus is hands down, booze and drugs. Booze especially. I wasn't a party girl, a science major, and rarely there on weekends and I know this. Personally, I have zero plans of sending a newly graduated highschooler off, away to school, the first year of college. It's frivolous financially (most of it pre-requisite coursework, aside from what college credits they earn during highschool), and filled with a hundred dozen ways to ruin your future. I'd teach them the meaning of a paycheck, independence, and make them earn good grades in order to finish their college education at a university first, while they are still living at home.

My two cents.

[Arkadia]

The biggest threat to your children on campus is hands down, booze and drugs. Booze especially. I wasn't a party girl, a science major, and rarely there on weekends and I know this. Personally, I have zero plans of sending a newly

oh, and SEX. It's everywhere. An orgy. Send your child away to college, and they will have sex. Pray they don't catch something deadly. Or come home pregnant, or with a girlfriend who is. It's probably one area parents of gay teens have some peace of mind, that those who don't won't. LOL.

[Arkadia]

No quoting. I recently visited a college campus on a holiday weekend.

HOLY SHEOT.

It's worse than I remember.

The groudskeeper said they literally bulldoze certain areas of beer cans and booze bottles.

If you want an eyefull, stay overnight on a weekend.....in the dorm of your choice, and stroll the "downtown" area (usually directly adjacent to campus) for the full effect.

You can raise them anyway you want, but it's a snowballs chance in hell if you plop them into that on their first "independent" grown up year, where they aren't required to do anything that isn't of their own volition. Add food allergies in there, and you're asking for a disaster. That I get. Just filling in the glaring blanks...

[CMdeux]

I agree with Ark on this one.  WHOLEHEARTEDLY.


Remember, y'all-- I live in just such a place-- and this is not noted as being a particular "party" school.  It's an ag and engineering school, mostly.  A vet and pharmacy school.  These are, by and large, pretty serious students who aren't there "just to party."

But there is also a healthy Greek system here, and these ARE college students we're talking about.  I use the adjective "healthy" somewhat metaphorically, of course.  Binge drinking is expected.  It kills a few of them pretty much every year, too, but again, that is relatively NORMAL for a college campus of this size.

Every single person that I know who lives within a five block radius of the route between "downtown" and the Greek houses and residence halls has had a vomiting, drunk, or passed-out college student wind up somewhere on/in their property at some point-- some of them on multiple occasions.

Some kids do fine when you send them away to college.  Some do not.  Parents generally (if they are willing to look critically at their own offspring) think that they know, deep down, whether or not a child has the capacity for this sort of behavior--

but I've known way too many "good" kids that wind up in dire straits that their parents (and professors, for that matter) NEVER in a million years would have predicted.  All it takes is one moment of bad judgement for things to snowball.

In other words, don't underestimate the potential-- no matter how responsible, law-abiding, or dutiful your child.

How does that relate to FA?

Well, in obvious ways, being impaired elevates the risk of error to levels which are frankly hair-raising.  It also makes it that much less likely that a student will be ABLE to summon assistance-- since the assumption will be that this is 'drug/alcohol' related and not anaphylaxis.  It also means that very few people AROUND your child will be in any position to assist with anything.  Ever.

Parents greatly overestimate the amount of adult oversight that college students will have.  In dorms or otherwise.
 

[GingerPye]

I'm SO GLAD to have all these replies here.  Thanks, everyone.  You've helped me see where some of the holes are wrt my daughter and this trip. 

Yes, booze, drugs, sex, and rock and roll are going to be big in college.  That's a whole 'nother ball of wax.   

Anyway,  I am happy about the strides made at some college campuses, more than I had thought.  I originally thought for years that DD would be doing the apartment thing.  I figured there was no other way.  Now, dorm living might be possible.  But I am still not convinced yet for DD -- need to see what college she ends up at and go from there.  And I know that it's not a requirement to live in dorms.  I had some great times in the dorms -- but I also had some great times in apartments when I got to grad school.  So I agree that dorm-living is not needed.

(gotta go for now)  Thanks for all the thoughts.   

[GoingNuts]

_{College is 9 months away.} 

[Carefulmom]

Well, until recently, even a year ago, I thought I would just make sure that dd goes to a college nearby and lives at home.  But when your child hits 10th grade and gets their 10th grade PSAT scores, then if their scores are very high, they start getting the recruitment letters.  Tons of them.  I have thrown away dozens and dozens.  And then I realize that I am depriving my child of an opportunity to attend dozens of excellent colleges by forcing her to pick one where she lives at home.  The fact that I was depriving her of an opportunity that she would have if not for the food allergies is not something I anticipated.  I didn`t anticipate feeling guilty for telling her that she must attend a school close enough to live at home, because she has LFTA.  The reality hits when your kid reads the letters from all the schools that want them and you have to tell your kid that you won`t let them go due to the allergies and your child looks so sad.  If your kid works hard to have a high enough GPA, test scores,  community service, and extracurricular activities that will get them into almost any school, then I really believe that they deserve to go.  She works so hard that it makes it very very difficult to tell her that she can only go to a few schools, not the ones that are too far to live at home.  I am not sure I am there yet.  It is much harder than you could imagine, when you really have to do it. 

[CMdeux]

I really do understand what you're saying, there, Carefulmom. (Seriously-- I was a NMS semifinalist, so I know what you mean by "ton" of recruitment letters...  you mean literally.  Tonnage.  LOL)

Remember, we've got a kid like that, too-- only we have an extra reason to say "no way" in her chronological age.  But believe me, GT parents wonder why on EARTH we wouldn't want to ship her off to a residential program at some university for the summer already...  <shudders>  At 18, will we be ready for her to live away from home?  I think so, yes.  It will be hard, no question.  But I trust her to be able to manage her own allergies-- provided that she can do the managing HERSELF.  The fewer people involved in making safety decisions FOR her the better.  So I don't really see a communal living situation as being very feasible, no.

The thing that I guess I'd be weighing is whether or not it is possible for a child with a LTFA to have a normative and INCLUSIVE college experience at a particular campus and still be safe.

If one "must" live on campus or in a sorority house to be a PART of the campus and experience the institution the way pretty much ALL (or even most) of one's peers and alums do... then that probably isn't a campus which is a very good fit for a child with a LTFA.  A commuter campus is a better fit because the experience that a person with a LTFA can have there is-- well, not "abnormal" relative to peers.

That isn't to say that the answer is "no."  It isn't that simple, really.  It's that the answer is; "while your friends are chowing down at the sorority house on whatever the house COOK has made, you'll be making your own dinner at your apartment.  Is it still the college experience that you are imagining as part of going to 'Dream U.' or is being part of that group of sorority sisters part of the dream?" 


I can't wave a magic wand and make the LTFA go away, after all.  Would I want to??  Of course.  But that isn't going to happen. 

[ajasfolks2]

Haven't re-read the whole thread tonite, but think this was discussed earlier in this thread?

Used to be (when I was at university, late 70's early 80's) that many colleges and universities had rule that the first two years ALL underclassmen HAD to live on campus in dorms, unless the student lived at home or was married.

At the schools where I was, that dorm living meant nearly no way to store or make own food.  (We could have mini-refrig in room, but no cooking then allowed EXCEPT in the one communal kitchen on the dorm floor -- all shared pans/utensils . . . oh, the roaches . . . filthy.) You had choice to eat at dorms/cafeterias on campus or to eat out every meal in off-campus, nearby restaurant.  (Unless, of course, you were invited over to somebody's house to eat . . . either an upperclassmen or family of student who lived locally.)

Just thinking that *if* this were case at particular school that LTFA child attends this day and age, then it would be crucial that the LTFA student was given accommodation to be relieved from this mandate and allowed to live off campus, or be authorized to get one of the few "apartment" type dorm set ups with cooking.

~ ~ ~

Lots of Ark's posts'content above that I channel.  (And CM's, and others . . . )

~ ~ ~

I'll be honest, in 5 - 6 years who knows how "university" or college ed is going to be shaped:  much of the first year or two may be possible online/cyber and NOT with requirement of rump-in-seat . . . combine that option with the astronomical cost (unless, of course, one has great scholarships) . . . and I see the face of the 4-year degree radically changing.  Please note that this is NOT about me keeping my kids close to me or more supervised -- just what I think may be a direction that the degree path could take for many kids, not just my own.


Just some of my random thoughts on this topic.