What do you give your PA/TNA child for coughing?

[Jessica]

I think there was a recent discussion about Delsym not being safe. My younger dd (nka) has a cough now and I bought some homeopathic stuff called Chestal. I emailed but haven' t heard back yet. There's also one that got very good reviews at amazon called Zarbees. The Chestal works pretty well but doesn't last very long. Does anyone use any of these homeopathic remedies?

[Macabre]

Hmmm....always used Delsym.

[GoingNuts]

Nothing.   If my DS's cough excessively it's usually their asthma, so they take asthma meds for that.

Actually, we don't use any cough/cold products - we just rely on lots of hot liquids, etc.

_{Though I would have killed for some strong stuff with codeine for myself the past two nights.} 

[CMdeux]

Depends-- we try to treat the underlying cause, mostly.

Asthma-- asthma meds

Congestion-- mucinex, hot liquids, steam, etc.

Dry air-- humidity (shower, etc.)


If it's bad and unproductive, we will dose with diphenhydramine to encourage SLEEP. 

[Jessica]

I don't usually give meds during the day either, unless we're going somewhere that it's important that she can somewhat control the coughing. The night time coughing is the problem. It's not only keeping her awake for hours, but it's keeping ds in the next room awake. So I've been trying to give meds overnight so she can sleep. She's not asthmatic-it's just a simple cold but she's always had a pretty horrible coughing stage. It's like a tickle in the throat kind of thing. So we are using Delsym but it's really not that effective-especially for 12 hours. It does help a little though. And the chestal works really well but it just doesn't last long at all. She also takes benadryl to avoid the post nasal drip. But I'm worried that my PA/TNA dd will catch this and while it's nice to not medicate ever, in order to get some sleep she'll probably need meds...

[candyguru]

I have used Delsym since I was a teenager and I am PA.. though I rarely need cough syrup.  Just once every few years when I get a dry cough that won't stop at nighttime. I have never called the company to check on it though. Our daughter is only 4 yrs old, so she is too young for cough syrup.

I heard a spoon of liquid honey is good for a cough and it has helped for us too (note- never give honey to a child under 1 year of age due to botulism spores)

[Jessica]

Here's the thread at the old board about Delsym. I have not called.

http://allergy.hyperboards.com/action/view_topic/topic_id/17784/post_id/385254

[aimee]

we are p/t/sesame and i have used hylands cold and cough for kids.  ages 2and up.  its awesome! 100% natural and sugar free.  helps with congestions/ cough/sore throat/runny nose/sneezing.  i dont use it every 4 hrs like directed, we use it mostly for night and i will give her some during the day.

[Jessica]

Info from the company Boiron which makes the Chestal syrup I bought (which works really well).

Thank you for your interest in Homeopathy and Boiron's Homeopathic Medicines. The medicines would be free of peanut and tree nut allergens as all of the medicines are produced and manufactured in their own controlled environment.  All of our medicines would be considered safe for those with nut allergies.

Thank you again for your interest,


Consumer Experience Specialist
Boiron Information Center
1-800-BOIRON-1
info@boironusa.com
www.boironusa.com

[Ra3chel]

Homeopathic preparations should be free of... well... everything. It's water. Maybe a bit of sugar, or honey if it's a syrup.

[Jessica]

Whatever. It claims to have some kind of herbs or whatever and it works so I'll keep buying it. I was just trying to find out what others use and share what's working for us-and it seems to work a heck of a lot better than Delsym. I don't seek out homeopathic-just safe and effective. But..thanks.

[Ra3chel]

If it's got measurable ingredients in it, it's not homeopathic.

And it's really important to know what's in herbal preparations, too. That something is natural doesn't mean that it won't, for instance, interact with prescription or OtC medication, and herbal medicine is really poorly regulated with regards to both ingredients and concentration. You may choose to use it anyway--that's up to you--but I think it's important to know what you're getting into, for much the same reason that you'd want to know if a manufacturer labels responsibly for allergens.

[hedgehog]

We use Delsym.  DS has never had a problem with it.  We only use it occasionally to get a good night's sleep (so rarely in fact that when I was sorting through the cabinet a month ago, I threw out an almost full bottle that had long expired--and it was used for the whole family).  I hate to give cold medicine, but it beats a sleepless night.

[CMdeux]

Well, I'm pretty sure that Jessica's response to me will similarly be a "whatever"

but she DID ask, and both Ra3chel and myself are pointing out problems with homeopathic remedies as: a) safe and/or b) effective

I think it is safe to say that this pretty much sums up what Ra3chel was getting at:
Homeopathic Companies attempt to muzzle criticisms
and for those that prefer video from the CBC (the entire thing is about 20 minutes long, but both links are embedded here):"Homeopathy; Cure or Con?  (comment 32 is particularly enlightening re: what homeopathic remedies are-- and are not.) 
Please note that the links above both mention Boiron (the manufacturer contacted by Jessica).

... adding to what Ra3chel noted,  relatively minor illness (cough, aches, etc.) is certainly an instance in which (IMO) the placebo effect is a perfectly valid and reasonable consideration.  It's probably what makes things like hot toddies, chicken soup, and warm tea with honey work, too.  <shrug>  I see nothing wrong with that, and belief is a pretty powerful thing.    In that sense, I'm of the 'whatever seems to offer comfort' school of thought.  I definitely don't think that "it doesn't have any active ingredients" is a reason to dismiss CAM remedies in such instances. 

Homeopathic remedies, on the other hand, I have some disquiet on other fronts.  Please bear with me.


I have a hard time trusting manufacturers who produce homeopathic remedies on the subject of cross-contamination risk to even KNOW what they are talking about.  (See below for a major example)  The fundamental belief behind it all is that dilution makes things MORE POTENT...     In other words, a single molecule of {whatever} in a gallon of water is more "potent" medicinally than 100 billion of those molecules would be in that same gallon of water.  I suppose by that standard a gross instance of cross-contamination with an allergen ought to be "fine" though, huh?

  Of course, they generally IGNORE the impact made by any 'inactive' ingredients in those statements, too.  An example: a skin cream that my DH (inadvertently) purchased for himself...  it is labeled 10x, which means that it is almost certainly entirely devoid of the "active" ingredient "sulfur" but certainly contains acrylates, ALOE, and a bunch of other things (including triethanolamine, parabens and lactose) in macroscopic quantities.  It has, by weight, more EDTA (a preservative) in it than sulfur.


My point being-- it's hardly "all natural" by any stretch of the imagination, and any effect that it has is more likely the result of the urea and/or aloe in it than the sulfur.  In other words, it's VERY expensive, preservative-laced aloe gel which probably wouldn't be safe for someone with a milk allergy (lactose).   

These (homeopathic) remedies are NOT regulated as either foodstuffs OR as drugs.  In terms of the homeopathic dilutions, they are :just water: beyond ~10x (or any "c" designation of 'concentration'), but that most certainly does NOT mean that they contain nothing else. FDA regulations for HOMEOPATHIC products.



Marketing claims and the legal differences between regular pharmaceuticals and CAM products:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/marketing-pharmaceuticals-in-todays-regulatory-environment/#more-7888

By the way, the SBM site columnists are nearly ALL practicing medical doctors or other professionals working in associated disciplines.  No, I don't write for them.   

I strongly caution anyone with LTA (to anything) to be extremely critical of any and all homeopathic and/or herbal/natural remedies marketed as "safe."  The alt-med crowd (and that includes those manufacturing and marketing those remedies) can be frighteningly ignorant.  But confident.  Not a good mixture.  This is exactly what I wonder about the response Jessica recieved; did the person answering it even understand the nature of the question in the context of true medical significance? 

Honestly, if I were after the placebo effect that homeopathic remedies offer?

I'd give some molasses, corn syrup, or simple syrup (flavored with lavender or thyme) in a teaspoon and call it "medicinal."  Or hard candies as 'cough drops.'  Our favorite non-drug intervention for a sore throat and cough is hot tea with agave, or hot spiced cider. 

That seems significantly safer to me than anything bearing what's commonly known as the "CAM Miranda" box:

"These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease."

If it bears such a box, then the product is handled as a "supplement" rather than a drug.  More like a food.  It is covered by FALCPA, (including the same loopholes re: intentional addition, cross-contact and 'safe' ingredient exemptions) but not by the FDA's more stringent regulations for drugs.

Here's an example of why using these products, fundamentally, bothers me (using Hyland's brand).
This recall is just a bit over a year old:

Hyland's Teething tablets recalled for belladonna poisoning risk  In essense, there are few manufacturing constraints in this industry, and someone in the minimum-wage workforce apparently forgot to DILUTE (or mix?) a batch.  Given that there isn't any product batch/lot testing going on, nobody even knew about it until the product starting harming babies.

Hyland's recall exposes lack of regulation

Hopefully that last example makes it clear why I will personally NOT purchase "homeopathic" remedies for myself or my family.  And why I won't shut up about them when someone else brings it up, either.   

[Jessica]

Actually I asked what others used and whether they've tried the two "non medicated" ones I saw at the store. That was about it. If you've never used it, a "no" would have been good enough for me.