Reaction or not?

[YouKnowWho]

I need help figuring this out.  Chicken soup is a staple in our house which I make from scratch.  I don't have a recipe that I follow exactly but the premise is basically the same everytime. 

The problem is that DS2 can have all of those ingredients seperate with no issue and he can even have my chicken soup but not everytime.

His allergy cup is definitely full if I am judging the random hives and sniffly nose.  And the last time we had these lips, he was super ill and we couldn't figure out if it was steroids, viral, antibiotics or chicken soup.

This was from the last reaction - we caught it faster this time but still a pretty significant reaction


The thing is, I served the soup at least twice since the last reaction and this one with no reactions.

My basic recipe is chicken (usually bone in thighs, tonight was boneless tenders but has eaten from this bag), box of Progresso chicken stock, water as needed, carrots, celery and spices.

Tonight's recipe included kale, fresh basil, crushed rosemary, garlic powder and a few splashes of Adobo seasoning.  It was not salty, almost lacked salt. 

About a third of the way through dinner, DS2 complained his lip hurt (I was concentrating on getting Em to eat).  I looked up and sure enough it was on it's way to swelling.  Gave him Benadryl and sent him in to wash his mouth.  No hives, no other issues.  It did swell some more but hit it's end and has neither progressed nor shrunk.  The prior reaction lasted a few days. 

So I am leaning towards reaction but to what?  Seriously?  I use all of these ingredients often but it seems to be when they come together in chicken soup, it seems to be a gamble.

Thoughts?

[becca]

The adobo or some blend of spices that might change from time to time in manufacturing?  Just grasping.  Adobo has MSG.  Any issues there? 

[YouKnowWho]

Same bottle of Adobo that I have had and used for years and on other meals with no reactions.  No MSG in it.  Ingredients are salt, granulated garlic, tricalcium phosphate (to prevent caking), oregano, black pepper, turmeric.

[CMdeux]

I'm guessing that one of the more commonly purchased ingredients (the stock?) is run on shared lines with an (unknown?) and non-top-8 allergen.

A seed, probably.  (Hate to even go there, but there aren't a lot of things with that kind of potency, unfortunately.)

The reason that this gets my vote is that it's random-seeming.  This would fit with cross-contamination that is only occasionally present.

FWIW, DH has had widespread hives kind of randomly from Progresso? or was it Campbell's Chunky?? chicken-with-rice soup.  He finally stopped eating it after about the fourth time it happened.  It was just odd.

The only things that we know of him being that allergic to are walnuts.  So yeah-- kind of makes you go...

It's also possible if this is COMPLETELY localized to his lips that it is non-allergic.  It could be a vascular thing that happens when he's eating food which is fairly hot, perhaps?  Or maybe it's a fragile blood vessel that breaks on him when he purses his lips a certain way (like to slurp up soup off of a spoon). 

Just throwing some ideas out there.  The fact that it's ONLY lips and that it lasts a few days seems to suggest "not allergy."  But you never know, unfortunately.

[GoingNuts]

Were his lips cracked or chapped?  If so, perhaps one of the ingredients really irritates them?

Younger DS and I can have this problem from time to time.  We're chronically stuffy, so our lips are a mess year-round.

[becca]

My ds lips do not swell, but he will sometimes have a horrible stinging thing happen eating certain(and random) foods.  I am sure it is something to do with acidity.  Pretty sure.  Last time it was chicken with a marinade of Ken's Italian dressing, and i think my own balsamic dressing has done it to him, when chapped.  He is left with a chapped red ring sort of rash around for days. 

[YouKnowWho]

His lips are back to normal this morning.

I wonder about the slurping because we were all showing Em how to slurp her soup loudly (and DS2 is not always the politest eater which I am working on).

Soup was not super hot because I know that is the kiss of death at dinner.  Basically if the first bite is hot in the house, they refuse to eat it even after it's cool.  I dished up and then waited 5 minutes.

I probably use 1-2 cartons of Progresso broth per week (or I did before the heat of summer rolled in).  It seems he only reacts to chicken soup though which is why I am puzzled - I have to say that I use the chicken broth most often.  I defintitely make other soups that he doesn't react to (DH is conviced I am the soup queen but the reality is that I am the one pot meal queen). 

One thing I have noticed with DS2 is that he is developing a slight case of eczema on his nose and under it.  Lotion seems to keep it at bay and it's certainly not the nightmare we went through with DS1.  I just atrributed it to allergy cup full and the pool.  His lips seem to be in good shape.

Ugh.  He has had mystery anaphylaxsis twice to Mahatma yellow rice mix and Mahatma is not forthcoming about their products.  And at one point he tested positive to numerous spices and was having numerous reactions during what we call his "haywire" phase when he first developed allergies but that all seemed to go away.  Right now we are down to peanuts and Mahatma yellow rice mix.  Manageable, right?  Oh well, I needed to make an appt with the allergist in the next few weeks anyway.  Anxiety is ramping up and school doesn't start for 5 more weeks. 

[nameless]

Mahatma yellow rice & adobo --- both have tumeric

Tumeric makes things yellow...is he allergic to tumeric?  Like an allergy-cup-full + tumeric  = reaction?

Adrienne

[YouKnowWho]

I don't think it's tumeric as he has it often - DH uses it as a supplement and the kids will sprinkle it often on their food.

[lakeswimr]

I this the child who is allergic to 'spices'?  did you call progresso to ask if those spices are in their soup stock?

Our plan would call for the epi for that reaction. I asked about lip swelling once at another message board and almost everyone 's plans have lip swelling as an automatic epi.  And those lips look *swollen*!  Wow!  I know that with mystery reactions it is hard to epi because we are thinking, 'this shouldn 't be happening'.  I hope you figure it out soon.

[YouKnowWho]

I need to update my signature with him and will do so in a few minutes.

He was diagnosed with many of his allergies shortly after his 2nd birthday.  Things went haywire regarding his immune system and he started reacting to beans, then possibly some spices (tested positive to garlic and mustard), reacted to mushrooms, tested positve to peanuts and some tree nuts with no known reaction history.  (Was seeing idiot allergist at this point).

Peanuts are a constant source of wonder for us - it's the one he still tests positive to on SPT and RAST.  It's large enough our allergist doesn't want to challenge.  His only known reaction and God help me, he sticks his arm in loose peanuts and gets hives up his arm.  No matter how many times we say no, he keeps doing it.  Not fun when you live in GA.

His most significant reaction has been to the Mahatma rice mix.  They are not forthcoming with the allergist or myself and their spice blend which the dr has almost discounted anyway.  He is eating all other spices now though with no issue. 

I had asked about the lip swelling and printed a picture for the allergist on our last visit - his thoughts were no Epi unless there is a secondary reaction. 

Will call Progresso tomorrow but since it's a staple of so many meals that DS2 eats, I just don't see it.  For whatever reason, it just seems to be this meal and not every time.

[lakeswimr]

The reason lip swelling is an automatic epi on most plans is that any swelling around the mouth and throat including lips can mean that swelling is going to happen in the throat that could block breathing so even those a reaction might be limited to that alone most allergist recommend giving the epi for it.  Your son's lips were enormous and much bigger than most lip swelling pics I have ever seen.  I interpret FAAN's plan as saying to give the epi for it because it could become obstructive.  Here is a link to it.

http://www.foodallergy.org/files/FAAP.pdf

Hives from touching peanuts sounds like a peanut allergy.  Combine that with good positive rasts and blood tests and I wouldn't want to challenge, either.  And I wouldn't think that is diagnosed only by testing since your child gets hives from them.  I think it is dr. Wood who says hives from ingestion = possible future anaphylaxis.

Spices is a very broad term to the point of being meaningless IMO.  My son is allergic to sesame which can be labeled as 'spice' so we do have to call when we see 'spice' but there are foods that say, 'spice' that my son can eat because they don't contain sesame.  Some of the mystery reactions you saw when he was younger may have been x-contam reactions to things  that were known allergens.  That was true in our case when we had mystery reactions in the past. 

That's too bad that Mahatma won't give you more info. 

You could have gotten a batch of xcontamed soup this time or xcontamed something.  But I do like trying to figure out mystery reactions.  In our case my son had a ton of mystery reactions and it turned out he had developed new FAs.  Good thing we tracked them down!  It was VERY confusing at the time, though.  Hope you can figure out the cause.

[Mfamom]

were any of the spices "fresh" like the rosemary? 

[YouKnowWho]

Allergist said he thought it was uticaria given DS2's issues with hives of no known cause.

Last night he had chicken at home, no issues.

Today, my DH took him to Outback where he had grilled chicken.  He called a few minutes ago to say his lips were hugely swollen again. 

WTH??

[CMdeux]

Is he allergic to any antibiotics that you're aware of?

Just wondering about that.  Could explain the kind of random nature of things.