camel's milk

[hopechap]

I found out last year that camel's milk IS available in the U.S.  Amish farmers and a few others are producing it. I went to the Oasis Camel Dairy's workshop last Spring because my Amish farmer was speaking. My first interest began some years ago when Israeli Medical Journal published an article about a study of CM and food allergy. The study only involved 8 children -- but the results were so good. The autism community has found benefits and I think they are the main consumers of the U.S milk.

Just thought I'd update you on my PA life. I will let you know if there is any improvement for my son. However, he IS expected to outgrow. But does test positive for some of the not-so-good proteins in the component test - def. peanut allergic.  But we have been hopeful for a long time -- always wishing to tweak it somehow into neutral. We had an accidental ingestion in September -- he ate a bite of brownie with peanut chips in it -- I got hysterical -- but no reaction. He took a tiny bite though, and I don't think his teeth sank into a chip -- just got the infused brownie smidgen.

At age ten, things have changed. All those darn cupcake problems from all the young years --I do wonder if anyone realizes how much stress their kids birthday is to more people than them.

[twinturbo]

Good to hear from you. Interesting about other species I often wonder if it were studied a lot more would key differences turn up despite the similarities in protein structures. Surely some kids would be able to tolerate other species rather than wholesale avoidance. Or if one species hydrolyzed has better success or baked is even better tolerated.

Anyhow, about the component test your DS has had a history of really forgiving theshold which the tests don't really reveal. Has he ever anaphylaxed? I don't remember.

Glad to hear life is chugging along. Now I truly understand the statement they grow up before your very eyes. Pretty soon both of mine will be in school instead of one.

[eragon]

what improvements are you wanting to see? have heard its good for some with ezcema, but not in helping with food allergies.

of course those with severe  milk intolerence would have problems with any mammel milk. and those with ige milk allergy would a well.

I would proceed with caution, and not only because of the cost!!   

[hopechap]

My kid is not allergic to milk - just peanuts and walnuts. The IMJ study subjects were mainly milk allergic - there was one severely nut allergic child. The total IGE went down for  all and the milk allergic kids tolerated the milk. Puny as this study was, it did get discussion at my sister's pediatric conference one year - the focus being CM as a possible alternative for milk allergic children -- children who cannot tolerate cow will eventually become allergic to goat or sheep milk -- but not camel.

I took it for a month first and I do say it makes me feel better. So my goal is overall health - but mainly hoping it has a positive affect on his allergies.

Okay, I know --   

OH -- and I apologize -- it is in keeping with his one peanut challenge that my child tolerated his brownie smidgen -- he DID tolerate a certain amount of peanut before reacting.  SO THIS WAS NOT A CAMEL MILK MIRACLE. 

And I geuss the ten marker -- well what IS my goal ? My child has asthma and has had reactions involving hives (big white bumps all over NECK), coughing, GI.  I think my big battles has been -- getting my dh to remember the Epi -- a battle now completely won -- but not so at the beginning. Inclusion at school - cupcake wars and being dragged through the parent association tossing around nut accomodations while the school took a passive stance. Having to explain Epipen for every playdate. No one understanding  (and who would?) the permutations of "may contains" avoidance and how that evolved and changed over the years.  But everyone here knows and has their own allergy hell. 

Yes -- the TENTH birthday coming up and I geuss I am wistful for the young years. The cupcake years. And a little frightened for the pre-teen , teen years ahead.

IF my child were to "outgrow" -- would I really want him to travel around without an Epipen? I think I will always be nervous (and rightly so, I hear) that one day it will come back. So I guess my goal is just to feel we are safer in all the unsafe situations we find ourselves in or WANT to be in -- like camps, etc.

[CMdeux]

Oh, I think that most of us can understand that perfectly well-- there is a huge difference in the locus of control with an anaphylaxis trigger which must be INGESTED in significant quantities over one that can trigger a massive reaction through occult exposures.  It's a different world, really.

I think that you have to live with MFA and different thresholds to really 'get' that one, but if you do, it really makes you... um... bitter?  envious?  I don't know if there IS a word for that feeling.  Because you can SEE how different your life (and your child's) could be if allergen A were like allergen B, even...

Even bigger difference if you don't need to fear minor accidental ingestions.  TOTALLY understand.     And beyond pasteurization concerns (which I would be concerned about particularly for a toddler or preschooler), there seems to be little harm in trying it, right?

[twinturbo]

I think the concern eragon condensed into one statement revolves around 1) ruminant milk cross-reactivity between closely related animals (as opposed to all mammals because human breastmilk is not part of that ruminant group) 2) the medical costs that can be incurred in some systems.

Last I read:

* breastfeeding is still recommended for human babies by leading authorities on allergic diseases so not all mammal milk
* there have not been enough definitive studies on related species to say other than speculate high chance of cross-reactivity
* private insurance systems may allow for very little cost to investigate especially on ppo cadillac plans such as we have
* in particular how extensively hydrolyzed a milk protein is can allow tolerance such as the case of my MA child
* given how heat and hydrolysis can break down proteins tolerated in patients with no tolerance for whole proteins it's entirely possible that further out the chances of cross-reactivity go down.

For instance, despite being related peanut allergic individuals can often eat soy and other legumes. I think there's room to explore if the out of pocket cost isn't too high and one is aware of the limitations of what the data means.

[eragon]

interesting.

however, I consider the possibilty that if camel milk became wide spread the first people to use it would be those who cant have cows or goat milk, in time, i suspect that camel will become a problem. It seems odd to me that for milk intolerence, the rate of soya intolerence is with it.

Although soya milk for infants is not now recommended , that was for other non allergy health concerns.

Goats milk infant formula has been removed from the NHS in Uk here for some time, but does crop up in supermarkets and health food shops. It failed health and safety tests for prescription use.
Goats milk does work for some, but I think thats a smaller amount that we are yet aware. Its fashionable to remove milk from diet and have the 'healthy' goats milk. The market is flooded with milk replacements, which is good for us with true food  allergy and intolerent concerns.

As for breast milk not causing allergies as such, there are infant who allergic to wide range of foods, some both intolerent and IgE that cant be breastfed, so individual milk is made for these infants.


and as a stupid side not, rice milk is one of the most vomit inducing milks i have ever tasted. !

[twinturbo]

I want to make sure we're on the same page.

Are you stating that an infant allergic to cow's milk is likely to be allergic to its own human mother's milk because both are mammals? Please cite source if that's the case. Or, that as we know through good data, that cow's milk proteins can be present in enough quantity in human breastmilk to cause a reaction in an infant and that ruminant milk proteins are likely cross-reactive?

Lastly regarding "breastmilk causing allergies" is that different from the above in any manner? Are you proposing separately that breastfeeding is a clear cause of food allergies? And if so what would you be basing it on? Not correlative isolated studies, I hope.

I don't know about the UK but in the US goat's milk is not recommended alternative to cow milk for children. Typically a fortified soy drink would be substituted if tolerated.

[eragon]

no, not that infants are allergic to mothers milk, but, if child is allergic to the protiens passed through in to mothers milk from food she has ingested. As yet no studies yet of a child allergic to the mothers milk protein, but it wouldnt surprise me if a study popped up eventually in time! 

when it comes to breastfeeding and allergies, doctors tend to look at not only the infants health, but the mothers if the food groups she is avoiding is on the long  side. Certainly there are plenty of mothers who doctors see who are still breastfeeding on limited diet and not doing too well on it health wise.




The uk soy infant formula was due to the safety aspect of the metal in the soya beans causing infertility in boys. And of course was a question of the suitabilty of removing cows milk formula because of suspected allergies, and replacing with a bean linked in family group as peanuts. Suitable cows milk allergy formula is used these days, and is free for those infants on NHS.


The history of infant feeding is quite interesting, goat has always been used, but of  majority died. mainly because they simply stuck the baby directly on the goat. In charles dickens oliver twist the workhouse lady was praised by bumble for oliver being alive, depite being fed 'by hand' rather than wet nursed. Humans may only have survived during medievil times because of drinking weak beer rather than water, and after that all we had that was safe was breast milk, and booze!  Now we are entering a new era, what milk will keep our allergic generation alive?

[twinturbo]

The historical perspective you mention being largely, if not entirely, eurocentric. That's a contextualization rather than an accusation.

Back to breastfeeding I haven't seen anything on a causitive side in peer reviewed literature that has spurred the international allergy immunology community to recommend against breastfeeding, if anything I think nearly all correlative findings have been shredded in peer review. We'd certainly have a good time of it on adult-onset IgE-mediated allergies! What were they doing?

[YouKnowWho]

I read an article about 6 years ago about camel milk - basically it was being touted as the best thing for those with cow's milk allergies because it didn't share the similar allergenic profile that cows and goats milk.  And while they said nothing was allergenic, camel milk basically was a close as one could get.  It also mentioned that buffalo milk might be tolerated depending on the degree of cows milk intolerance (not allergy).

I remember considering moving or traveling to CA to investigate the few dairies that were marketing it at the time because DS1 was diagnosed as being allergic to dairy, soy and rice (which were later found to be false positives).  Our state has really strict laws about milk from any source other than homogonized cow milk so it would have had to been sold to me as pet food milk.  Hence the reason that I wanted to investigate because there are operations that sell pet food milk intended for human consumption vs pet food milk intended truly for pets.

These are the things a mother is willing to do when she has a child diagnosed with allergies to wheat, rye, barley, oats, rice, corn (another reason for the non-fortified camel milk), eggs, dairy, soy, peanuts and tree nuts who was suffering from failure to thrive and malnutrition.  Thank goodness I was able to run from the clutches of that idiot allergist who falsely diagnosed him with so many allergens.  Gee you think a child who has that many restrictions, small statured relatives, etc might struggle to put weight on.

[hopechap]

We could have had a food allergic support group in San Ramon ! (Oasis Camel Dairy, I presume) .It is still hard to get camels milk legally.  the Amish sell it to the consumer throuh a private food club.

[eragon]

Twin, didnt know this was just a thread to throw studies on, and i agree with you, but our language is different.
I heard about camels milk years ago for those with intolerence. along with eating african dirt.   
and pig farmers having higher rates of asthma than any other farmers, even higher than normal generally.
which conflicts with the hygeine theory. That just works for dairy farmers. (who wants to rub their  pregnant  selves in cows poop, and then pop back after giving birth to roll your baby in a steaming pile?)

history does teach us something, and infant feeding practices are relevent to our current generation of health with regard to food allergies. As does the impact of the change in our environment have on our health.

humans have sucked down many different milks over the years but usually to replace mothers milk, if mother had died / ill  after childbirth.
However the lack of hygeine /disease rather than allergy took those children. From the 1900s feeding infants changed with advances in tinned milk, and in the uk with the NHS, and various male infant and children doctor experts.
It  also became a business, and milk was promoted as being vital for every human, which as we all know isnt strictly true. Infants and children need milk, adults do not, and can get the nutrition from other sources.
I suppose its best to follow as remote tribes do and breast feed our children until they are around 7-8 yrs old.

I have always looked with great interest at my granfather  born in 1910, and fed by a wet nurse, but after a short while nursey had to pop home and couldnt do the night feeds. He was given tinned evaporated milk, and very quickly developed ezcema. Nurse stopped at 3 months,and tinned milk was all he got. Being very high in sugar, i suspect by the time  his baby teeth  appeared they were not in good shape for long.

My grandmother, was breastfeed, but later on never got on with milk, which always gave her terrible tummy ache. she avoided her whole life.  They produced quite a few children, with asthma, eczema and hayfever. and finally produced grandchildren with the same and plus food allergies.
So history play its part in understanding allergies imo.



I am looking with a raised eyebrow at the  rate of kids with EE though  and wonder what has changed so much in the last 113 yrs to give rise to this terrible condition?  will our hormone filled  breastmilk  give some clues?
But sadly the studies done on breastmilk are mostly  paid for by those linked to the artifical feeding companies, who hope to replace the function of our fine knockers with something that will earn them £££.

(I think i might start a thread that is a wish list of the studies that should be carried out, but are not currently going to happen. )

What ever the current studies on outgrowing etc with regard to my son, is a mixed bag with some odd unusual aspects that have my son's current docs scratching their heads. He, like so many multiple allergic people is individual and follows his own path.


My daughter is milk and soya intolerent and has been told that anything from any udder is to be avoided.

[becca]

My MIL was fed goat's milk for her severe eczema.  She is an old lady who has lived to tell of it. 

[twinturbo]

Right. But there eurocentric history is simply that, one of many histories. While I realize I don't type in broken English nor have my text appear in an oriental font the assumption that my ancestral long term history is defined solely by a eurocentric one is inaccurate.

I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean by disregarding the value of peer review in medicine.