New boyfriend and kissing

[Nueva Gal]

Hello, I hope someone who has been there has some suggestions for me.  My daughter is allergic to peanuts and has a new boyfriend.  They have their first real date coming up this weekend.  They have been boyfriend and girlfriend at school for a month now.  He know she is allergic to peanuts, but that is about all he knows.  So there are a few issues here:

1.  Does anyone know how long he has to refrain from eating peanuts before they kiss?  I know three hours is not enough time.  Is 12 hours enough?  24 hours?  It is possible that they won`t kiss on the date, but it is better to get this worked out in advance just in case.

2.  How to tell him.  She feels it is a bit presumptuous to bring up the no peanuts and kissing issue, but if she doesn`t and he kisses her, she could have a reaction.  We know he eats pbj, because he started eating lunch with her and her friends.  One day he had pbj, but did not eat it because of her.  She is not sure if it was because one of her friends told him not to eat it, or he just figured out if she is allergic to pn he should not eat it.  Any ideas how to tell him?  It would be so much easier if she were an adult.  She feels very awkward about it.

3.  How to bring up teaching him the epipen.  She has taught at least 8 girlfriends, but feels weird teaching him.  She is not allowed to go anywhere involving food unless there is someone other than her who is epipen trained, in case she is unable to self administer.

Any ideas?

TIA,
Nueva Gal

[PurpleCat]

We we are getting closer to DD dating than I'd like but it is that time in her life.  So far she's just had crushes.

She and I have been talking about this one since she was in 3rd grade.  DD says she is ready to have the conversation if and when.  Of course saying that and doing are two different things.  I tell her - it's all yours but if you need support, I am a mere phone call or email away.  And of course a lesson here is easy to do too.  DD has been showing adults and friends how to use her EPI and explaining her allergies to them so I know she had the ability.  There is no easy way to talk kissing and touching but it has to be done.

Will facing a boy mess with her abilities?  Could be.  Waiting for Auvi-Q to arrive this week.  That will help as the trainer can talk!  Too bad it can't speak to the kissing issue! 

[momtoAidenDeclan]

a suggestion I got was for my son to bring it up (he hasn't needed to yet - only 13) at first as, " You know I can't even share your drink, if you've been eating PB!"  Rather go right into "kissing"

Good luck!!

[starlight]

I've used the line "if you think there's any possibility that you'll want your lips to come anywhere near me that night, please make sure you haven't eaten peanuts that day or our night will end in the hospital." It usually goes over pretty well if you say it with a smile.

[Janelle205]

If teaching about the epi makes her nervous, I might go with the 'blame the parents' situation.  I had my staff do some things similar when I was a camp director - let them blame certain rules on me.

She could say something like: I feel weird asking you about this, but it is Mom/Dad's rule that I have to be with someone who knows how to do it so...  Play it as a combination of 'this is serious' and 'everyone's parents have certain rules'.  When I was dating, I told my dates that I knew that if something bad happened they'd probably get nervous, so if they didn't remember, the instructions are on the side of the pen.

[GoingNuts]

Welcome Nueva Gal!

I love MomtoAD's suggestion about starting with the drink sharing!  Great idea - I've told my son that forever, but never considered using it to segue into the kissing conversation.

I started the kissing conversation with DS back when he was about 10, and kids were already starting to pair off in elementary school (actually, I remember that being a big pairing off age, even back in my day - you know, when dinosaurs roamed the earth).  All joking aside, I guess some of it depends on how old your DD is.

I know I read something recently about how long you have to refrain from kissing, but I don't know how long that is.  Honestly, since they see each other at school the chances are they will be running into each other spontaneously - he should probably refrain altogether as long as they are a couple. 

Possible TMI [spoiler]

And not that you want to even go there now, but if and when she becomes sexually active, condoms are going to be her best friend in more ways than one.  Seriously, those proteins can be passed via semen too, and there is definitely a longer window period than with kissing.  Just sayin'. [/spoiler]

As for training him on the epi, honestly, that's probably the easiest thing about the whole situation.  I like the blame it on the parents scenario, if she really feels awkward about it.

Honestly, I feel so badly for our kids wrt dating.  Dating can be so anxiety provoking without this extra layer of awkwardness, KWIM?  I know DS's first girlfriend was super-careful, but they had known each other well for about a year before dating.  I have no idea what's going on up at college; I can only hope he's using good judgment.

Serenity now, serenity now, serenity now...

[krasota]

For me, the allergens are slightly different.  For soybean, it's 24 hours for kissing *unless* it's soy lecithin or highly refined soybean oil.   Those are 12 hours--if it's just been a few hours, I react. 

For other bodily fluids, it's 48-72 hours for me. 

With wheat and gluten, it's only a saliva thing for me.  I react to DH if it's been less than 6-8 hours.  And that's with oats, not wheat proper.  Sometimes less is okay if there's been a good toothbrushing and plenty of other stuff to drink, but oats aren't in any way oily, y'know?  Peanuts are oily and oils tend to persist, it seems.

My peanut allergy isn't as bad as those two, but we don't really risk it, either.  DH doesn't eat peanuts proper.  We do wait several hours if he has (refined, not cold-pressed) peanut oil.

The thing is, people metabolize stuff differently.  Or sometimes it's a residue thing.  Sometimes it has to do with how people absorb proteins in the gut.  Not everyone secretes proteins (I do--my kid's reactions via breastmilk were documented). To be safe, I'd probably want a minimum of 12-24 hours for kissing.  And there better be flossing/toothbrushing in there.

[Macabre]

I thought there was something published in the last two months, but I can't find it. I do find a 2006 study on the remnants of peanut protein in saliva--cited three different ways below. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16950293

Full paper that of that:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/120/Supplement_3/S118.2.full.pdf

And a summary: http://www.carolinaasthma.com/PDFs/PEANUTPAPER.pdf
In a 2006 study, peanut protein was gone from saliva in 87% of patients after one hour. Unfortunately, in this study it took waiting three hours along with the eating of an additional meal to guarantee that all peanut in saliva would be gone. In this study, brushing teeth or chewing gum helped peanut disappear more quickly in some, but not all, people. Basically, partners of peanut allergic people should not eat peanuts if intimate contact could occur that day.


Irrelevant to this, but wanted to tuck this somewhere until I can find the right place:
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1035&context=foodsciefacpub

[PurpleCat]

All this necessary discussion and research just for a kiss!

These allergy situations bother me much more than what my DD can not eat.  They make what she can not eat seem simple.  When she was a baby and toddler it was the relatives that wanted to hug and kiss or have her sit in their lap.  Now it's teens who want to hug and kiss and "la la la la la la la la".  LOL!

[Nueva Gal]

Thank you for these links.  The first two say that if it has been a few hours and the person has eaten a non-peanut meal after the peanut meal, then there will be no pn protein in the saliva.  But the last link says that pn protein can be in saliva 6 - 18 hours later.  18 hours is a long time!  Plus when can one be completely sure that there is no pn protein in saliva?  After 19 hours?  24 hours?  The article or at least the synopsis in the 3rd link really does not say.

I think that is a good idea for her to tell him that her mom says anyone who goes anywhere with her has to learn the epipen.  After all, it is true.  I think she does not want to scare him off, though.

Back to the kissing, I wonder if after 24 hours one can be 100% sure that there will be no protein.  I know with adults it makes sense for the boyfriend to give up peanuts, but I think it is a little presumptuous for her to ask that for one date.  They are in high school.  It may or may not turn into something long term.

[Macabre]

Well, something I meant to post is that several years ago one of our members posted that her dd had a local reaction when her husband kissed their DD after work--lip-shaped hives on her cheek.
He'd had a donut with peanuts at a work meeting more than 8 hours earlier.


The only other thing I can bring to this conversation at this point (DS is turning 15 in a couple of weeks, so I am dealing with this soon!!) is that a couple of years ago DS had a stage kiss. A real one. He was in 7th grade and the 8th grade girl had to avoid peanuts tech week and performance weekend.

He won't have a stage kiss for his current musical other than kissing the top of a head maybe. Whew.

[Ra3chel]

Sweat can be a thing, too. 

[maeve]

Well, something I meant to post is that several years ago one of our members posted that her dd had a local reaction when her husband kissed their DD after work--lip-shaped hives on her cheek.
He'd had a donut with peanuts at a work meeting more than 8 hours earlier.

It took me a long time to realize that DD didn't just have ruddy cheeks.  That I was causing local contact reactions when I kissed her cheek after I'd had a Snickers at work hours earlier.  That's when I stopped eating all nuts.  It just wasn't worth it to me.  I do eat items on shared lines/may contains (and now even bring those into the house).

The only other thing I can bring to this conversation at this point (DS is turning 15 in a couple of weeks, so I am dealing with this soon!!) is that a couple of years ago DS had a stage kiss. A real one. He was in 7th grade and the 8th grade girl had to avoid peanuts tech week and performance weekend.

He won't have a stage kiss for his current musical other than kissing the top of a head maybe. Whew.

I had to have the conversation about kissing in kindergarten because a boy at DD's day care kissed another girl there.  (At that age, the likelihood that the kisser had eaten peanut butter was pretty high.)  We've continued to have the conversation about kissing and now that they've started sex ed at school, I've brought up condoms and how those will be important not just for pregnancy/STD prevention.

[Macabre]

Peanut protein in saliva for at least three hours after consumption. See this thread:


Study: Distribution of peanut protein in the home environment

[CMdeux]